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But I tell you the truth, it seems to me that you spend a great deal of thinking about how other people... everyone is wrong. And conversely even though the whole world thinks you are weird, you think you are fine, normal, and you don't do drugs either. If you want to make conversations, you have to like people... not judge them... not make them wrong. You can't just go to bar and demand congenial conversations about "musems, geology, evolution, traveling, photography, art." That's not how the world works.

But there you are sitting in the back room by yourself, and someone comes up and speaks to you! Imagine!? That person doesn't know you, but they are interested in YOUR story? Just curious in the people around them I assume? It sounds like they tried to make conversation, and you asked early, "Why are you talking to me?" And then took offence when they said you are "unusual?" You could have smiled, and said, "So is Lady Gaga." Whatever. But you aren't going to have many pleasant encounters, until you can care about the trivial little events and concerns that all add up to be the story of our lives. And also not make everything about your story... you could have asked this person ANYTHING, but somehow you asked... or the conversation came around to "Why are we having this conversation?" That's never good for a first conversation.

Last edited by tall-p on 04 Jan 2014, 3:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

Obviously uuhatever you're eating nouu isn't solving your problems, so uuhy not try something else? Personally, I uuas so sick of being the uuay I uuas that I uuas uuilling to do anything it took be happier & healthier, including strange rituals & bizarre routines. Do you think the things I've done uuere normal for me before this process? No, they uueren't - but after I learned uuhat I needed to knouu I uuas uuilling to give anything a shot.

I had those same frustrations.

Those ones, too. But you knouu uuhat I learned? uuhen it's everyone else and not you, it's not everyone else - it's you. Accepting that I uuas the one behaving oddly uuas pretty pouuerful because it finally made me more open to figuring out houu to change myself vs. angrily thinking it's others that should change. Like the saying goes... If you uuant to change the uuorld, start by changing yourself. Or, Be the change you uuant to see in the uuorld.. or any incarnation of that same sentiment.

I've told you repeatedly: uuhat more you can do is try things you haven't tried yet to see if they uuork. Even paying retail at a drugstore, a bottle of epsom salt lotion uuill cost you less than $10 and then you'll knouu uuithin a uueek or so if it's beginning to have any positive effects on you.

Eating different foods isn't supposed to turn you into an NT stereotype idiot. It hasn't done that to me. I still read my same books, I just enjoy them more and am happier and healthier than I've ever been. That and virtually every area of my life has improved dramatically. Socially, uuork uuise, friendships, physical health and fitness, finances, my mindset etc. I still don't care for stupid BS like reality tv & find it's a rather silly assumption for you to make that the goal of self improvement and better mental health uuould be to become a reality tv uuatcher. No. It's to be happier & healthier.

It seems like you are interested in some very specific things (like most people here). Why not focus on finding people with those same interests? You could sign up to a photography forum, do special projects and maybe meet up with some people. You can do that for any interest you have.

The Norfolk scenery does sound nice but constantly riding buses sounds like an AS special interest.

At first I thought 'why would you want to belong' but I know how lonely it can feel to not have anything like this forum and I'm glad after a stressful week out there with NTs that I have this place to come back to.

I've read your posts here. You sound AS-like to me or at least you can relate to some things here.

I think you need to give people a chance. Not everyone out there hates you or find you too odd to be around. You've kind of told yourself that to save yourself the rejection. I've been like that lately but now I know most of the problem is with me and what my mind keeps telling me what those people think about me.

The bus/photography/drawing thing actually sounds like something pretty relaxing to do.

Everthing Pensleave said.

You do sound rather AS to me as well.

Why dont you just get tested for it?

Even NT's have to sell themselves to others even just to make conversation.

And if you go to pubs why not develop a 'special interest' in shooting pool (or throwing darts, or whatever they have in British pubs) to lubricate the social interaction?

I don't demand people talk about anything, I am quiet in person and spend most of my time asking them questions. I remember what they have said, they rarely remember anything about me. I have an above average memory though.

I don't want everyone speaking to me, I don't feel comfortable around some types and certainly not someone who keeps telling me I hate myself when I do not. And no they don't just want to know my story they are gossips....some of them have spoken to me in the past, they all gossip about each other behind each others backs, running each other down and then being nice as pie to each others faces. I have lived where I live for 4 years...neighbours have spoken to me in the past whilst I was on my way in etc. It's all gossip, trouble making gossip.

One has had the police round lots of times (have seen the police cars outside his house), another has been in fist fights, they have been in fist fights with each other...

They are not asking out of niceness, they are rooting for gossip.

And I didn't take offense to their face. I merely replied with "well I am not very good at the social thing, I am much better at academics". I even went to his caravan for an extra drink after closing but he lost interest in talking to me when he said "you are too normal, I like weird people". I come across as weird as I sit alone, I like sitting alone and often don't want to interact with anybody so yes sometimes someone talking to me is unwanted if I am too tired or too preoccupied to make chitty chat. However, when people get to know me I live a very normal kind of life what with visiting museums and going to the gym and doing my shopping and i don't do drugs or have any piercings (except my ears and an old nose piercing I no longer use) or tattoos etc, which is the kind of thing he was looking for, not just a few slightly strange but very tame quirks. Because I have a mental health diagnosis people think I must be into wild stuff. I am not into wild stuff. Even my sexual kink is tame as I don't like anything that bruises or marks or breaks the skin or that is unhealthy or that requires the use of drugs. I plan nearly everything before I do it unless I am so drunk I can hardly stand. In fact I faff for ages to the point of being annoying as I can be indecisive at times and won't do something until I am sure....this can drive people nuts. When I am sure though I am impatient and want to get on with it straight away!

Anyway, even if I don't feel like talking I remain polite in person, was always taught to remain polite. I have to be very very distressed by something to get upset in front of anybody (the last time that happened it was because I got lost, could not find the address I had my therapy appointment at, had asked 3 people, they couldn't tell me and in the end had to pay a taxi driver to take me there and I had to ask several of those as the first didn't know where it was. I did get upset then but I mostly bursting into tears and walked along the road moaning at myself about things..).

He asked me why I was sat alone...I had to reply to him it would have been rude not to, so he started the conversation all about me. Not me.

As for normal I am more rational than most:

I rarely make assumptions (I have to be upset to do that and its a knee jerk when my anxiety levels are too high). In a calm frame of mind I always check my facts and if I have made any assumptions I am always willing to change them if facts come to light that require me to do so.

I don't make value judgments, but I do know if I enjoy someone's company or not or whether I feel safe and/or comfortable around them.

It is unreasonable to expect me to be interested in everyone that crosses paths with me. I don't want to be friends with the whole world, that would be unrealistic given that I don't have a lot of social energy and am highly introverted in some ways.

I am polite, I always say please and thank you and offer my seat to the old lady on the bus. There are a few exceptions where I am so lost in thought I try to get on the bus before people finished getting off but as soon as I realise I appologise and step back quickly to allow the passengers to disembark. It is usually accidental when I am not concentrating because I am lost in my own world.

I usually let people talk about whatever they want. I may have trouble staying with it but I do my best. For example this morning a lady spend 20 minutes at the bus stop telling me all about shopping carts. I don't really use a shopping cart but she seemed to want to rattle on so I let her. Plus I am not good at ending conversations...I get stuck there and can't get away as I don't want to be rude and don't always know how to draw the chat to an end. So i suffer, and suffer, and suffer all in the name of being polite and friendly.

I rarely get to talk about things that interest me... I learned long ago people don't like me babbling on so I let them lead the conversation. I also don't know how to start a conversation so I let them do that too.

You assume my online writing style and my speaking style are the same. I can't express myself very well verbally. I can't think of things to say, i mix my words, can't find the words i need, have trouble explaining things in a way people can understand and so on. I come across as slow...or backwards in person. I am much much much more fluent in writing. A webcam video does not count...do you have any idea how many takes it takes me to get my videos and even then I still look weird or boring or odd in some of them (even if I don't mean to). Plus talking to a webcam on my own with a set piece i have rehearsed is not the same as live chit chat. Live chit chat moves to quickly for me....it takes me a while to think of replies so people think I am not paying attention when i am...I don't answer them quickly enough. I can't I am processing and trying to formulate a response but if I say that people think I am weird...

I get funny looks like the time I said "Oh sorry I didn't realise people were disembarking" when I accidentally tried to get on the bus prematurely or the time I asked if someone would like a beverage instead of drink . I have to remember to keep my vocabulary casual and to cut my words short so I don't sound posh or stuck up.

Then I have to read peoples intentions etc and I can struggle with that too on occasion. Sometimes I get it, sometimes I don't, most of the time I am not always sure. So I just wonder around in confusion over all things social most days.

You seem to have no idea how hard socialising is?

Getting 97% on a University level physics paper was easier and I am actually not kidding...

Excuse my typos I am tired tonight, have a headache and really just want to head to bed to sleep it off, so if it is not too bothersome to people I will leave them where they are for the time being.

Ooohhhh nnooooo to the pub idea

Firstly I am trying not to drink (I don't think my drinking is a very good idea) and secondly I tried darts last night and hit the wall instead of the board by mistake (my aim was off). The landlord got ever so angry with me. He told me not to hit the wall with the darts and I smiled because I was amused not by the fact that I had made dart holes in the decor (i had not thought about that at that point) but because my aim was so bad it was like something out of a comedy or something (I found it amusing basically)..I mean I missed the board entirely 3 times in a row! He told me not to smile and yelled at me.

I won't play darts there again. If I want to do that I will get my own board and play at home thank you. I don't like being yelled at by angry landlords. I just said Ok when he yelled about not smiling and then went into another room alone and burst into tears.

I am getting a digital piano before I get a dart board though as I have my eye on a local music school for piano lessons. I think that is more my speed and I can't make holes in the wall by mistake (I don't think anyway).

It is very relaxing. The feeling of movement is calming. The scenery can be breathtaking. Sometimes I read whilst I am on the bus (I am presently reading the Shark that walks on land which has reference to several shark species including the sleeper shark, basking shark, bonnethead shark, scalloped hammerhead shark, cookie cutter shark, Greenland shark, six gill shark which is considered to be a living fossil as is the goblin shark as well as having more mythical tales told by sailors about the sea) and that can be relaxing too. I did try drawing whilst the bus was moving but it wasn't very steady so I wait until I have disembarked off of the bus before doing that. I am teaching myself from a book and with practice at the moment but I may take a local class. When it comes to the photography I very much like to photograph and film beautiful blue (the sea), she is amazing.

But the feeling of motion is much more soothing for me than breathing exercises or relaxation where I have to sit still. The latter just seems to wind me up. Motion is calming. Ergo why I like riding buses, but only particular routes. I don't like inner city ones...too much stopping and starting. In the rural areas there are not many stops, not many passengers and the bus spends more time in movement.

Today I rode the 210 into Norwich then caught the X44 into Sheringham then jumped on the CH3 to wells by the sea where I changed buses and went to Hunstanton where I disembarked and had an egg and bacon sandwich and cup of tea by the sea. It was raining but I didn't mind. I sat undercover so my sandwich didn't get wet.

I do like to say hello to beautiful blue every day otherwise I miss her...I am very fond of her.

Then I caught the Coasthopper bus CH2 (i think) back to Wells then the CH3 back to Sheringham, then the x44 back to Norwich, got some ice cream from Sainsburys (I have a working freezer now and it has been a long time since I had my usual belgian chocolate haagen daz with a movie on the weekend) and then caught the 210 bus back home.

It was very nice.

This is a nice typo:

"So I just wonder around in confusion "

Thats good.

Playing a musical instrument is even better-if you can master it- to get social cachet, and to give you stuff to talk about with others, and so forth.

bumble. I think it is a bit humorous that you are so convinced that you do not have autism because nearly everything you post SCREAMS Asperger's. You post long monologues that go into unnecessary detail about YOURSELF and YOUR INTERESTS. This quote of yours is a perfect example.

Anyways, I'm going to give it to you straight: in social places like pubs, people want to talk about general interests such as television shows. If you are not interested/don't want to talk about that, then don't go to such places. It is unlikely that you will find anyone who is interested in talking about your hobbies. If you absolutely cannot or will not make small talk, find venues that relate to your interests such as classes, art shows, community lectures. How about joining a knitting circle?! Join forums and e-mail lists that revolve around those hobbies and perhaps you can make friends there who will eventually want to meet you offline.

Oh, and one more thing...do you actually want to meet people and socialize? The way you talk about it sometimes makes it sound like it's just an exercise some therapist is having you try.

...unless someone values small talk, chitchat, reality tv, celebrity gossip etcetera & so on.

I'm not claiming that I don't make these same value judgements of people from time to time, I'm just pointing out that you do, too - and seemingly quite regularly for how often you've posted about them.

I know I'm not her and can't answer for her, but I believe she wants to.. but can't. Does that make sense? She wants to have normal friendships & social relationships with others, but can't quite seem to figure out the process of how to do it since her brain isn't functioning in a way that will allow it to happen either naturally or forced. That's why she gets so frustrated with it all and posts the anti-social rants & monologues that she does, even though I don't believe she truly means deep down that she doesn't want to be around people or social interactions.

Aside from once when I was very stressed out when have i ever said that someone is inferior or wrong to like such things?

All I have tried to say is that I don't enjoy such things...that is not the same as saying there is something wrong with people who do.

Gossip can causes trouble or drama that does not need to be caused. This concerns me but it is not a value judgment.
Small talk is not something I spend a lot of time entertaining in my head. I find this hard to make, ergo I do not enjoy it myself. But how is that a value judgment in regards to judging people who do like small talk? I do get fed up with the world expecting me to find it easy when I keep telling the world small talk is hard for me.

Reality TV and celebrity gossip I just don't follow. No judgment at all..I just don;t watch such things on TV or buy those types of magazines. So when people talk about them, I have no idea what they hell they are going on about half the time. I don't even know who all these celebrities are. *shrugs*

Not normal no...

I have no desire to make small talk and enjoy chit chats about the local gossip
I have no desire to have human company 24 hours a day
I have no desire to live with anyone (I like living alone)
I have no desire to hang out in girly group

I would like a close friend I share a connection with and with whom I can enjoy congenial conversation about subjects of mutual interest and I do crave a life partner or lover (although ideally we would spend time together but maintain our own places. I value my alone time, I cannot acquire that if I live with another person unless that person is very understanding. I'd have to be very compatible to live with someone that is for sure, but I do enjoy a little romance and intimacy all the same).

I really really love my hobbies too and I do not want to lose my hobby time for the sake of sitting around in a girly pack making chitty chat. That does not interest me.

What I would like is someone to enjoy visiting museums with (we can discuss the displays) or go to the theater with (we can chat about the play and whether or not we enjoy it and if so what did we each enjoy. And someone can make a joke and we can laugh and have fun together) and so on.

Normal bores me. That is not to say there is something wrong with it, I just really don't find it all that fascinating.

I love to learn and explore instead. When i was at college I spent every night doing research in the library because I wanted to be there. I was not going over material from the curriculum, I was doing extra curricular study for my own entertainment. I would in no way change that. In no way did I feel sad that I was not at some party somewhere making social chit chat. I was happy researching in that library, the happiest I have ever been in my whole life. I was most at home there. That's why I visit the library so much now..I want the love of my life back. My studies.

I get really really annoyed and upset when people pull me away from my love though to make social chit chat. If I had wanted to socialise that is what I would have been doing, not hiding at the back of the library behind the big pile of books hoping no one notices me, not because I am nervous, but because I want to be left alone to study.

I have never yet met one soul who understands that.

Some company once in a while (and I mean once in a while) for a few hours here and there would be nice though and I'd like to have someone special in my life too (the special person gets most of my attention, as once I bond with someone I become far more interested in them and their life).

Bumble, I think you suffer from the same problems that a lot of us do when you say that chit chat bores you. For me, it doesn't bore me right away, I actually like hearing about people's families and what their little kids are up to, etc. But not for say an entire lunch. Sometimes they go on and on an and on and it's like a dentists' drill. Then, especially if I'm with a large group and the entire group is into the conversation and loving it, I start to feel guilty about not loving it too.

It absolutely amazes me that people can talk about nothing but their own lives - all these amazing things going on in the world, and all they can focus on is what is in front of them, the same stuff they talk about every day!

But having said that - you have to put up with that stuff to have friends. You can't just say leave me alone except when I feel like I need you. I will be your friend if you do things that I find fascinating, but don't expect me to chit chat with you about your daily life.

The chances of you finding another Aspie who has exactly the same interests that you do and wants to be left alone when you do, is pretty slim. Sometimes you just have to bite it and be interested in things you don't really find interest in (because if you just pretend to listen when they talk, but then never know what they are talking about when they return to the subject, they will know). But think about it, that's how you would want them to treat you. You don't want someone putting such extreme limits on a friendship with you, you would just feel used.

Anyway, I have a totally hard time dealing with all of this. All of my friendships are pretty superficial, meaning we hang out at work, sometimes at lunch, etc. I still have to do all of this stuff. It's just a fact of life.

I hope you feel better soon - you seem to be in a lot of distress lately.