AS person gets in trouble because he didn't take his meds ..

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LostInSpace
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23 Jan 2014, 10:28 am

Fnord wrote:
Mitchell Munro Taylor of Seattle got in trouble because he posted anti-gay threats on Ed Murray's webpage, not because he 'forgot' to take his medications..


This. There is no excuse for this kind of behavior.


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Janissy
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23 Jan 2014, 10:41 am

Adamantium wrote:
There is no medication for Aspergers.

Many people with ASDs take medication for comorbid conditions, though being a bigot isn't one of them.

The lawyer could have brought up the medication for the actual thing it treats, rather than "Aspergers."


He could have but it would have been an inferior defense strategy. The defense lawyer's job is not to be as clinically accurate as possible. His job is to say whatever he can to defend his client and get the charges reduced or dropped or the client acquitted.

Bringing up Aspergers has been a successful defense strategy in some trials. As long as it works, a defense lawyer should bring it up. A defense lawyer who does not is incompetent to defend a client with Aspergers.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... fense.html

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If (or when) McKinnon does get extradited, his "Asperger's defense" might still come in handy. Criminal defendants in the United States have been using similar tactics with varying degrees of success in recent years. In fact, it's not all that rare for criminal defendants with Asperger's to argue for leniency in cases of computer fraud, sexual misconduct, and murder. Three years ago, the defense even made its way into an episode of Boston Legal.

How does this gambit work? One of the hallmarks of having Asperger's is a severe difficulty navigating social situations. This awkwardness appears to stem from an inability to detect facial expressions and other social cues; people with autism and Asperger's display a notable lack of empathy for others. Indeed, a 2004 study (PDF) found that both disorders are associated with low scores on a test designed to measure social awareness and compassion. Defense lawyers have argued that violent criminals with Asperger's may therefore be incapable of understanding the harm they're inflicting on another human being.

That was more or less the tactic used by the team representing Robert Durst, a real estate heir who killed and dismembered his neighbor in 2001. Durst was charged with first-degree murder, but a psychiatrist testified that his actions were the result of emotional deficits and impulsive behavior associated with Asperger's—so the crime could not have been premeditated. The argument worked, and Durst was acquitted.Most judges and juries have been unconvinced that Asperger's can explain or excuse violent behavior, though. Last month, a judge in the United Kingdom sentenced a 22-year-old woman with Asperger's to life in prison for beating her mother to death, saying her lack of empathy didn't reduce the gravity of the crime.


There is much to disagree with in the article that I linked and quoted. What can't be disagreed with is that it is a defense strategy that a defense lawyer should use if they are defending a client with Aspergers. To disagree with its' use as a defense strategy is to misunderstand the job of defense lawyers.

Defense lawyers will stop using it when it stops ever working. I don't know how many times it has to fail as a defense strategy before the defense lawyers purge it from their arsenal of tactics. But every time it does work, that extends its' usefulness and insures it will still be used.

This has implications for the AS community. As long as it continues to work at least now and then, it will be to the benefit of any AS person who is arrested. The flipside of that is it continues the impression in the public's mind that AS can predispose to criminal behaviour. It's a conundrum.



Niall
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23 Jan 2014, 11:10 am

Janissy wrote:
There is much to disagree with in the article that I linked and quoted. What can't be disagreed with is that it is a defense strategy that a defense lawyer should use if they are defending a client with Aspergers. To disagree with its' use as a defense strategy is to misunderstand the job of defense lawyers.

Defense lawyers will stop using it when it stops ever working. I don't know how many times it has to fail as a defense strategy before the defense lawyers purge it from their arsenal of tactics. But every time it does work, that extends its' usefulness and insures it will still be used.

This has implications for the AS community. As long as it continues to work at least now and then, it will be to the benefit of any AS person who is arrested. The flipside of that is it continues the impression in the public's mind that AS can predispose to criminal behaviour. It's a conundrum.


I would say it's more than a conundrum. Okay, I have a whole set of social deficits, but that is light years from not being able to understand that beating someone to death or shooting up a school will hurt people. The evidence suggests we are no more predisposed to criminal behaviour than allistics, although there is a profile of aspie criminality that might make some of us more likely to commit certain types of crimes than allistics (and vice versa).

There is the problem that those social deficits already make many allistics uncomfortable around us, for reasons that are mostly, in the case of Aspies decidedly overstated. This is connected in the minds of many allistics to assorted violent crimes, from the a***hole we are talking about here, to Sandy Hook. This makes those allistics believe all of us are a genuine threat.

When defense lawyers are using AS to get us off crimes one of us committed as a result of AS, that is one thing. Using AS as an excuse to get one of us off crimes because he (usually) has been an a***hole harms all of us.

This leads to another problem, which is worsening discrimination and marginalisation. In my case, I've mostly directed this inwards, as do those posters on these forums talking about how much they hate themselves on pretty much daily basis. When you direct the consequences of that marginalisation outward, towards anger to those you think caused it, rightly or wrongly, that has a chance of turning into aggression, even violence.

This defense lawyer may be helping his client which is, as you say, his job, but he may be harming the rest of us.



Dillogic
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23 Jan 2014, 12:09 pm

Well, if his interest goes along the same lines as what he was speaking about....

They dope people like this out.



chris5000
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23 Jan 2014, 12:46 pm

thought crime is real

you can go to jail for thinking now



Fnord
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23 Jan 2014, 3:44 pm

chris5000 wrote:
Thought crime is real. You can go to jail for thinking now.

[citation needed]

I am thinking the word "Now", and I don't hear any sirens ... :lol:



rapidroy
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24 Jan 2014, 12:23 am

All I could think of when reading this is he must not be hurting for cash to have a bail that high.



Stannis
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24 Jan 2014, 12:40 am

rapidroy wrote:
All I could think of when reading this is he must not be hurting for cash to have a bail that high.


Great point. Could be a paid GOP troll.