If people aren't tools then what are they?

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This.

This is the autism forum.

The sociopath forum is probably down the hall somewhere.

Viewing people as tools isn’t psychopathy it’s an approach, a format to use to achieve an objective. A compensation for not understanding relationships a common feature of asd. It provides a structured way to interact and it’s designed and effective for survival, independence, but it doesn’t work for creating relationships. So a new format must be created with new rules for interaction, guidelines for behavior, approach and conversation. The question is how people would be defined in this socially geared format. What roles they play in relationships.

People are "Human Resources" in corp-speak. This means that to our employers, we are tools.

Yup its the sad truth. theres no employer who cares of their employees, they only use them for their own good.

Hmm, well...I think I offered some vague suggestions in my earlier post, but to offer a more specific answer to that particular question:

Could you try putting yourself in the position of the "tool"? That doesn't sound entirely serious, but it is -- not a good rule to use across an entire relationship, but it could work in some situations or in terms of accomplishing a certain objective. By this I mean -- find out what someone else wants, and make their objective your own. Objectives are just objectives, and while people place more importance on their own by automation, really everyone's objectives have about the same weighting and you can train yourself to see it more like that. Even if it doesn't fully interest you, try to imagine that it does, or why it might, or at least do it as an experiment.

Do you like animals? In terms of interacting pleasantly with people, the same kind of core principles apply (you are nice to them, they are nice to you, there's an exchange of something and both parties end up feeling good) but obviously with rather more intricate social rules, seeing as you cannot generally go up to another human, pet it on the head and expect it to purr, or other such things -- you can however say hi and smile and they might return the gesture to a similar effect.

People are something to explore. They are not an object to manipulate into achieving an objective, but, if you are forming a friendship or other relationship with someone, you are combining simple interaction (one person says or does something, the other responds appropriately, both learn or get something out of it -- company, validation, whatever -- both feel good) with exploring the person. Think of it as taking apart a complex piece of machinery (...but please don't actually take people apart), looking at all of its different parts and beginning to understand how it works. Maybe humans are just complex machines, with thoughts and wants and feelings. You can begin to understand someone in terms of this, but just remember that you are just as much a machine as they are, and if you would not want to be used or manipulated or hurt, neither would those with whom you are interacting.

In getting to know you, they, just like you, are exploring you, deconstructing you, seeing how you function in certain situations and how you respond to certain stimuli (provided by them.) So yes, maybe thinking machines (while taking into account your own status as one, and remembering these particular machines can suffer and this matters) is a step up from thinking tools. You will never fully understand the workings of another human, probably never fully understand your own either, but interaction is a good way to gain at least a better level of understanding than none.

People do tend to "use" each other to accomplish objectives to a certain extent, but in a friendship maybe it's better to see it as sharing objectives. It has to work both ways. If someone opens up to your objectives, you need to try to open up to theirs; if someone is trying to understand your workings, you should return the favour. Because the overall objective is to make life better or at least smoother and more bearable for everyone and to reduce rather than to cause suffering for both others and oneself. If you cannot understand or accept the last part, the other posters might be correct in that this isn't the right forum.

Agreed. Also doesn't always mean to use a person in a bad way.

Sparowblue u think you have a good way of explaining things

What do you mean? If you're referring to the first line of my first post in this thread, no -- I was referring to Kiriae's post on the previous page, as I thought that was a good explanation. I realise I said "above" but my post happened to end up on the next page. I'm not that arrogant, and it doesn't make much sense to second my own posts.

I'm trying my best to explain things. I don't know whether it is any good or not and can only hope that it is. For all I know it might make no sense to others at all, in which case I can try to explain in another way, or let someone else explain it better. So I'm just trying to answer the question. Maybe it will help. If not, it's easy enough to skip past the post and move on.

Last edited by sparrowblue on 06 Apr 2015, 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

Cuddlehug, think of humans as your fellow apes. What behaviors, gestures and words are likely to produce which results in them? Thinking about human interactions as simply another kind of animal interaction (between members of the same species) has been illuminating for me.

If you really want an answer as to why the OP thinks that other people are tools. I can sum it up with this. One of the main things about having autism.(Asperger's as well.) Is that we don't connect to other people emotionally, and since we never have and never well. It's easy to treat other people as if they are objects (tools in this case.). I know, I have a tendency to do this as well, so I can relate. You are not being a sociopath, a sociopath knows that other people have feeling and just doesn't care and exploits them for their own gain.

Well because usually people serve more than one specific function...and don't enjoy being used as though they do. You don't run into that with most actual tools as they tend to be inanimate unless they have some electronic function.

I get the principle of mutual exchange. If I want something from someone I need to pay for it offer something in return. If you want your car to run you need gas if you want the computer to work you need to give it electricity if you want food you need to pay for it. Everything has a price that you need to pay and to not pay it yet expect something is selfish which is a personality trait I cannot abide. Like my brother he inspects my car and in return I loan him the money he wants. I get that he’s a person but I don’t know how to interact outside of this format. The reason mutual exchange exists is to maintain people like you would anything you need to maintain and take care of it to ensure it keeps working properly. In the case of people it’s also to reduce the probability that someone will hurt me because they’ve been stolen from and thus harmed themselves. It’s interacting outside of mutual exchange that I need a new format because relationships are not governed by it… unfortunately.

If they were then I could say this is what I want what do you want in return and if it’s something I can provide then we have a deal. We’d sign an agreement and then move in together and live happily ever after as the fairy tale says both getting what we want and having better lives as sparrow said. But relationships are not governed by mutual exchange and I don’t know else to approach them.

Sharing other people’s objectives makes sense you help achieve my objective I help achieve yours but that’s mutual exchange not a relationship.

Good point.

It's called a "Quid Pro Quo" arrangement (lit. "This For That"). It forms the basis of commerce, from today all the way back to the world's oldest professions.

Honestly, I view other people as tools for the most part, things to help me accomplish goals. I know people are more than that, but in the grand scheme of things, if I didn't need other people to accomplish things, I probably wouldn't even bother with them. Goals, to me, can mean a wide range of things, from material things like money, to metaphysical concepts like companionship. Call it overly-literal autistic thinking, but that's just how I roll. It drives other people nuts, but it's their fault that they refuse to understand how I think of things.

*puts up barriers in preparation for the barrage of angry comments*

How could you have used only one space between sentences? Don't you know that two spaces makes posts much more readable? Honestly; the nerve of some people!






I'm only kidding! Besides, I agree with you!