If NT apparently means "non-autistic"...

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14 Feb 2016, 12:14 pm

<--- May not even be autistic, just garden variety crazy, but did find there are enough people on WP to relate to otherwise he would've left permanently years ago.

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Ashariel
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14 Feb 2016, 12:18 pm

Joe90 wrote:

Here's how I may have ADHD instead of AS then:

I'm discovering that what your diagnosis says on paper, vs. how you explain yourself to other people, can be two different things. There's no law requiring you to disclose your autism, in terms of making friends and interacting socially. If you prefer to self-identify as NT, or ADHD, and you feel more comfortable that way, I don't see a problem with that.

Personally, I'm choosing to self-identify as 'shy, awkward, and hypersensitive' - which is pretty much what everyone has thought of me all my life anyway, but at least they believe it, and don't think I'm faking it to be 'special'!

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14 Feb 2016, 12:24 pm

I self-identify as KraftieKortie. I never self-identify myself as having a condition. People frequently get the wrong idea should you self-identify yourself as having a condition. Usually, people see you as being a complainer when you do self-identify.

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14 Feb 2016, 12:41 pm

NT means "Neuro Typical". Nothing more - it's a relative term. Used by itself, it's frustratingly vague. Alone, all it means is someone who falls on the middle distribution of the bell curve of the general population when *everything* is included. And that can include a lot of unusual-brained people who are otherwise mostly typical.

In the context of people with autism, it means people without autism. In the context of bipolar, it means people without bipolar. Same for epilepsy, and so on. NT is even used by LGBT people (and researchers) to mean people whose sex-dimorphic brain development happened in the same M/F direction as the rest of them. It's a useful word, but imprecise.

Trans people started using cisgender to describe people who are not transgender. It's just the application of the opposing latin prefix, both of which were borrowed from organic chemistry a half century ago. By not setting one as the default and the other as "not-" they can be discussed with greater neutrality. Perhaps something like that could be used for Autism as well, but I can't come up with a similar neutral pair.

My suggestion if NT bothers you would be to either use the pair, "Autistic/Non-Autistic" or maybe AS/NA (for Autism Spectrum / Not Autistic).

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Last edited by Edenthiel on 14 Feb 2016, 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Joe90
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14 Feb 2016, 12:46 pm

Quote:

In the context of people with autism, it means people without autism. In the context of bipolar, it means people without bipolar. Same for epilepsy, and so on. NT is even used by LGBT people (and researchers) to mean people whose sex-dimorphic brain development happened in the same M/F direction as the rest of them. It's a useful word, but imprecise.

That makes more sense. So in the context of the high number of Alzheimer's patients I deal with at work, I'm NT.

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Ashariel
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14 Feb 2016, 12:54 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

I guess I meant how to explain your difficulties, if you're unable to completely hide your autism, and people ask what's wrong with you. If you don't want to say it's autism, you could pass it off as something else - precisely for the reason you stated, because people often get the wrong idea about autism.

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14 Feb 2016, 3:02 pm

Tawaki wrote:

Joe90 wrote:

So just because I have the instinct to read people (body language, face expressions, etc) and can make eye contact and greet people, I was misdiagnosed with AS for sure and I've been NT all this time?

Per everything I have read, and what the head big deal psychologist told my husband, yes.

Listen, I have bipolar disorder I, and am considered NT. I've had 15 inpatient hospitalizations, amd 23 day hospital stints. I've had a miserable childhood and sometimes struggle as an adult.

Yes, I am NT. NT does not mean perfect with no struggles. NT does not mean no mental illness. NT only means that I don't have to actively learn social skills. NT doesn't mean you don't struggle social interactions.

My husband has told blow by blow how to act in new social situations. My ADHD (who won't quit talking to me while I'm typing this..argh!) knows, but his impulsivity gets in the way. He wants to talk and have social interaction, but the need "run his mouth" or do physically something gets in his way.

Here's an example of two people who don't shut up when they should in a social conversation.

My husband's Aspie monolog. He does not see people are slowly dying of boredom, and will keep talking even if you start walking away.

My ADHD friend, he knows he's talking to much, but the ADHD symptoms just swamp him. He gets upset if people just turn around and leave. My husband actually is not upset because he doesn't see it as a "I can't take your talking any more."

Curious, why does it matter if you are NT or not? It doesn't make your issues any less if you are NT, at least for me.

The definition of the term "NT" has actually appeared to of changed from when it was first coined within the autistic community. The way you described it and the way it's used by you husband's support group as well as here on WP is actually in terms of it's original definition as being non-autistic. It appears that what happened is that some other groups of people with mental disorders started identifying with it and used it to describe "normal" people not like them. When I first started frequenting websites and forums for people on the spectrum though, the term NT, was rarely ever used outside of support groups for autistic people.

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14 Feb 2016, 3:13 pm

Tawaki wrote:

Once you get a mental illness under control, you can function like anyone else. If your ADHD/SAD/GAD is being handled optimally, your social problems will go away. There is nothing that will "medicate" or cure Autism proper. If my husband's anxiety goes away, he will still have problems with social skills and "reading people".
This issue isn't the anxiety (which totally doesn't help), but his Autism.

ADHD is a neurodevelopmental disorder/disability....it's no more a mental illness than autism is.

Tawaki wrote:

The ADHD might give you troubles with executive functioning skills, but the reason you have issues is different from a person on the spectrum.

I am not so sure that the executive dysfunction in ADHD is any different than the executive dysfunction in autism. As far as I am aware, there is no conclusive body of research that has even separated the EF symptoms into distinct profiles for each diagnosis, let alone actually demonstrated that there are different neurobiological mechanisms underlying those EF symptoms. (If you or anybody else knows otherwise, please tell me and then point me in the direction of the research.)

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14 Feb 2016, 4:38 pm

animalcrackers wrote:

Tawaki wrote:

ADHD is a neurodevelopmental disorder/disability....it's no more a mental illness than autism is.

Tawaki wrote:

The ADHD might give you troubles with executive functioning skills, but the reason you have issues is different from a person on the spectrum.

Is it really though? I wonder about this because I hear so much from people saying: it's a mental/chemical imbalance i.e. it can be treated and it should so that people don't suffer. however I also hear It's a brain thing like autism is. However, from my friends with ADHD they don't see it as developmental they see it as a medication issue something that can be restored or fixed and should be done that way then. So, that's what I thought it was, but you're saying that not the case correct?
How can it be neurodevelopmental if you can take medicine and effectively make it go away? You can't do that with autism.

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14 Feb 2016, 4:44 pm

Jono wrote:

Tawaki wrote:

Joe90 wrote:

I think that is an interesting point to bring up. I took it basically to mean not-autistic and use it as such. However I did get the sense of this broadening of meaning with the whole Neurodiverse thing. The NT means notautistic/not mentally ill (I don't mean that term in an offensive way but in the conventional sense meant to conjure what is traditionally termed illness of the mind). Interesting things to bring up.
Equally as interesting is the idea that NT means something different in different setting.

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14 Feb 2016, 5:44 pm

Unfortunate_Aspie_ wrote:

Whether or not there is a treatment or even a cure for something doesn't change whether or not it's a neurodevelopmental disorder.

For something to be a neurodevelopmental disorder, all that means is that it's a disorder of early brain development -- your brain develops atypically....and, as a result, functions atypically.

And, on the subject of medicating ADHD, response to medication varies. It doesn't always completely eliminate all symptoms -- some people are "non-responders" who don't really get any benefit from medications.

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14 Feb 2016, 7:09 pm

redrobin62 wrote:

<--- May not even be autistic, just garden variety crazy, but did find there are enough people on WP to relate to otherwise he would've left permanently years ago.

<--- Sometimes wonders if my Asperger's diagnosis "fits", since I sense so many differences between myself and others on WP. This used to bother me. It doesn't any more. I just figure that I am not on the "Right Planet" or the "Wrong Planet". Rather, I am simply between-planets. Which allows me to "objectively" observe both worlds.

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14 Feb 2016, 7:49 pm

Tawaki wrote:

Joe90 wrote:

So the young man down my street is NT even thouh he has severe Mental Retardation? He is 26 but can't say a word except "hiya!" to everyone, regardless of who they are. He's physically disabled too, so requires a wheelchair, and he needs 24-hour care because of his extremely low IQ and inability to communicate except for saying "hiya" to people. He went to a special school and now he goes to this adult day care while his parents are at work. He may be able to make eye contact and is affectionate, but he can't really speak except shout and babble, and he has no understanding of the rest of the world, like politics, fashion, work, money, trends or responsibility.

But he's a neuro-typical?

NT just means hard wired for social interactions. I have seen barely verbal Down Syndrome workers at Mc Donald's with more social skills than my husband. They knew when someone was happy, or when someone needed a napkin.

That barely verbal man you described, may be much more socially aware than my husband.

Also just because someone is non verbal does not mean they are unware. That man may not know about Donald Trump or fashion, but in his life he know he says "Hi" and people react. An Autistic child with a 140 IQ may never learn that.

Well, since you strictly believe that it only takes a person to be able to read body language by instinct to be 100% socially skilled, then what about a person who is born blind and deaf?
OR how about an Aspie who can read body language by instinct? Does that make them an NT with AS?

The way I see it, NT is a person with no brain dysfunction or no imbalance in the brain that differs their behaviours from the norm in a significant way. So that could be Dementia, ADHD, ASD, Bipolar, Fragile-X, Soto's, Schitzephrenia, Down's, Mental Retardation, Tourettes, Dyspraxia, Epilepsy, the list goes on. These are all brain disorders, causing cognitive impairment of some sort, be it imtellectual delay, poor emotional management, social impairments, impulsive behaviour, antisocial behaviour, awkwareness, physical impairments caused by an imbalance in the brain, the list goes on there too.

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14 Feb 2016, 7:56 pm

Joe90 wrote:

The way I see it, NT is a person with no brain dysfunction or no imbalance in the brain that differs their behaviours from the norm in a significant way. So that could be Dementia, ADHD, ASD, Bipolar, Fragile-X, Soto's, Schitzephrenia, Down's, Mental Retardation, Tourettes, Dyspraxia, Epilepsy, the list goes on. These are all brain disorders, causing cognitive impairment of some sort, be it imtellectual delay, poor emotional management, social impairments, impulsive behaviour, antisocial behaviour, awkwareness, physical impairments caused by an imbalance in the brain, the list goes on there too.

Problem is, by the time you weed out everyone with any attribute that is not considered statistically typical...your bell curve is exceedingly spiked & no longer represents what most people or an average would consider a "normal" or "typical" person.

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14 Feb 2016, 8:18 pm

Unfortunate_Aspie_ wrote:

Is it really what? A neurodevelopmental disorder? Of course it is. Research says has shown very clearly that children with ADHD have around a 30% delay in brain development. Some do catch up developmentally and basically grow out of it, but most don't.

The reason why medication works for ADHD is because it corrects a deficiency or decreased availability of neurotransmitters. The exact chemical deficiency is probably not the same in everyone, so not everyone who has it responds to medication the same way. Plus the vast majority of people with ADHD have at least one other disorder comorbid to it which may impact the efficacy of medication.

It isn't known definitively whether the neurotransmitter deficiency is caused by the delay in brain development, or if it is actually what causes the delay, or if they are both caused by something else. It probably varies, because ADHD is known to have multiple etiologies. But in any case, neurotransmitter deficiencies and developmental delays are both intrinsic to ADHD, and they are not mutually exclusive of each other.

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14 Feb 2016, 8:45 pm

dianthus wrote:

Unfortunate_Aspie_ wrote:

Huh, guess I'm woefully misinformed then. Off to google I go. I do wonder (and I think this of autism too) if it is a developmental DELAY they why does it seem so permanent like wouldn't one catch up after a certain point come into their own. Doesn't seem like that with many autistics I know or myself. Or is this a case of moving goal posts? Once you master or catch up with one social skill an even more complex one moves in to fill its place.

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