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Darmok
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14 Apr 2016, 2:57 am

nurseangela wrote:
Darmok wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Darmok wrote:
I don't know if the thread subject is true or not, but aspies are often good with systems of rules, and etiquette in the broad sense is just a system of rules to make social interactions work more smoothly. If you were taught to follow various rules of etiquette as a child (like holding doors for people), it's just a natural and automatic thing to do -- it's not something you even think about, any more than you think about saying "please" and "thank you."

So to the extent that aspies tend to be rule followers, if they were taught these rules, I expect they may tend to follow them more than the average person and so appear to be more formally polite.

(My rule for door-holding is that the person who gets to the door first holds it for those coming after.)


So if your date got to the door first, you'd expect her to open it for you?


Hmm, "your date" -- I'm not sure I'm familiar with this concept. :D


Hypothetically, then. Would you expect her to open the door of she reached it before you?


This is actually a quite fascinating question -- about as perfect a analytical question as an aspie INTJ could ask for. My intuition was automatic and strong, but I had never had to articulate the basis for it, and uncovering it has been very interesting.

The generic social rule is that the person who gets to the door first holds it for those who come after. But any generic rule can be over-ridden (Angela might say "trumped") by a more specific rule. In this case, the specific rule emerges from the host/guest relation. If I am a host, which is a position of social leadership, my obligation is to specifically look after the needs of my guest(s). In such a role it is proper to go out of one's way to do more for the guest than would be called for in generic situations. But systems of etiquette and chivalry are *reciprocal* systems, and in such a system it is simultaneously the role of the guest to gracefully allow the host to take the lead in performing such social courtesies as getting the door. The host/guest relation implied by the invitation to a date defines these roles. And note that the guest can violate reciprocal courtesy as well: you may be my guest, but if you stand at the door, hand on hip, saying "I'm *waiting* for you to open the door," well, you're not likely to receive a second invitation. :mrgreen:

I note that my generic door rule means that I quite often hold doors for people much younger than me. I have found that this often surprises them and has quite a few other positive effects.

(Did I mention that I'm an INTJ?)


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nurseangela
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14 Apr 2016, 3:07 am

Darmok wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Darmok wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Darmok wrote:
I don't know if the thread subject is true or not, but aspies are often good with systems of rules, and etiquette in the broad sense is just a system of rules to make social interactions work more smoothly. If you were taught to follow various rules of etiquette as a child (like holding doors for people), it's just a natural and automatic thing to do -- it's not something you even think about, any more than you think about saying "please" and "thank you."

So to the extent that aspies tend to be rule followers, if they were taught these rules, I expect they may tend to follow them more than the average person and so appear to be more formally polite.

(My rule for door-holding is that the person who gets to the door first holds it for those coming after.)


So if your date got to the door first, you'd expect her to open it for you?


Hmm, "your date" -- I'm not sure I'm familiar with this concept. :D


Hypothetically, then. Would you expect her to open the door of she reached it before you?


This is actually a quite fascinating question -- about as perfect a analytical question as an aspie INTJ could ask for. My intuition was automatic and strong, but I had never had to articulate the basis for it, and uncovering it has been very interesting.

The generic social rule is that the person who gets to the door first holds it for those who come after. But any generic rule can be over-ridden (Angela might say "trumped") by a more specific rule. In this case, the specific rule emerges from the host/guest relation. If I am a host, which is a position of social leadership, my obligation is to specifically look after the needs of my guest(s). In such a role it is proper to go out of one's way to do more for the guest than would be called for in generic situations. But systems of etiquette and chivalry are *reciprocal* systems, and in such a system it is simultaneously the role of the guest to gracefully allow the host to take the lead in performing such social courtesies as getting the door. The host/guest relation implied by the invitation to a date defines these roles. And note that the guest can violate reciprocal courtesy as well: you may be my guest, but if you stand at the door, hand on hip, saying "I'm *waiting* for you to open the door," well, you're not likely to receive a second invitation. :mrgreen:

I note that my generic door rule means that I quite often hold doors for people much younger than me. I have found that this often surprises them and has quite a few other positive effects.

(Did I mention that I'm an INTJ?)


I'm an INTJ too with ADHD and that was a long paragraph. Was your answer a "yes" or a "no"? :mrgreen: (Did I mention that I'm an NT?)


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nurseangela
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14 Apr 2016, 3:13 am

I still remember my college algebra professor - I was leaving the classroom and was close to the door and he rushed to get there first and opened the door for me. Heavy sign. I'll never forget that. :heart:


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Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
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Darmok
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14 Apr 2016, 3:15 am

nurseangela wrote:
I'm an INTJ too with ADHD and that was a long paragraph.


Does that mean you didn't see the special joke I embedded within it just for you?


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ZD
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14 Apr 2016, 3:22 am

I expect the person at the door first to hold it open for the next person and then that person takes over the role. So if I was on a date and she got there first I would expect her to hold the door if she didn't I would take that as she isn't interested. I'll have to try and do this tonight I'm out on a date lol.


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nurseangela
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14 Apr 2016, 3:25 am

Darmok wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
I'm an INTJ too with ADHD and that was a long paragraph.


Does that mean you didn't see the special joke I embedded within it just for you?


It's funny, but Aspie jokes always go over my head. Are you talking about the "trumped" thingy?


_________________
Me grumpy?
I'm happiness challenged.

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.


Sweetleaf
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14 Apr 2016, 3:25 am

ZD wrote:
I expect the person at the door first to hold it open for the next person and then that person takes over the role. So if I was on a date and she got there first I would expect her to hold the door if she didn't I would take that as she isn't interested. I'll have to try and do this tonight I'm out on a date lol.


Makes sense to me, I am not offended if my boyfriend or any male opens the door for me...but if I am there first there is no reason I can't open it.


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nurseangela
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14 Apr 2016, 3:26 am

ZD wrote:
I expect the person at the door first to hold it open for the next person and then that person takes over the role. So if I was on a date and she got there first I would expect her to hold the door if she didn't I would take that as she isn't interested. I'll have to try and do this tonight I'm out on a date lol.


How old are you, if I may ask?


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Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.


Darmok
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14 Apr 2016, 3:29 am

nurseangela wrote:
Darmok wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
I'm an INTJ too with ADHD and that was a long paragraph.


Does that mean you didn't see the special joke I embedded within it just for you?


It's funny, but Aspie jokes always go over my head. Are you talking about the "trumped" thingy?


Are you sure you're not an iStj?


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nurseangela
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14 Apr 2016, 3:29 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
ZD wrote:
I expect the person at the door first to hold it open for the next person and then that person takes over the role. So if I was on a date and she got there first I would expect her to hold the door if she didn't I would take that as she isn't interested. I'll have to try and do this tonight I'm out on a date lol.


Makes sense to me, I am not offended if my boyfriend or any male opens the door for me...but if I am there first there is no reason I can't open it.


This is exactly what I meant about the younger generations.

It seems all of this "chivalry" changed with feminism..I thought like that too when I was younger, but now I'm the opposite.


_________________
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Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.


nurseangela
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14 Apr 2016, 3:35 am

Darmok wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Darmok wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
I'm an INTJ too with ADHD and that was a long paragraph.


Does that mean you didn't see the special joke I embedded within it just for you?


It's funny, but Aspie jokes always go over my head. Are you talking about the "trumped" thingy?


Are you sure you're not an iStj?


What? I took the test several times. What makes you think so?


_________________
Me grumpy?
I'm happiness challenged.

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.


b9
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14 Apr 2016, 3:37 am

i have never been chivalrous.
as far as i am concerned, women can ordinarily take care of themselves.
i think it is kind of like an attempt to interact with a women if one opens a door for them when they are capable of opening it themselves.
i am not looking for "thankyou's" or for any appreciation from women because i am not interested in intentionally impressing them.

if i see someone who i know will have trouble opening a door, then i will open it for them, but if i get a thankyou from them, i will generally tell them that i did not want to be held up by them fumbling with the door.

some men are always looking for chances to be a "white knight" for women, and i find them smarmy.

i will protect a woman from harm if i decide that my assistance would improve their chances of avoiding harm, but if i get a heart felt thankyou from them, i would say that it was just a reflex.



nurseangela
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14 Apr 2016, 3:41 am

Darmok wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Darmok wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
I'm an INTJ too with ADHD and that was a long paragraph.


Does that mean you didn't see the special joke I embedded within it just for you?


It's funny, but Aspie jokes always go over my head. Are you talking about the "trumped" thingy?


Are you sure you're not an iStj?


Quiet and serious, ISTJs are nicknamed the "Inspectors.” They earn success by thoroughness and dependability. Representing roughly 12 percent of the general population, ISTJs are practical, matter-of-fact, down-to-earth, and responsible. ISTJs rely on logic and steady hard work to accomplish tasks; they will push on despite distractions to get a job done. ISTJs enjoy organization and order in their work, home, and life. They appreciate tradition and loyalty.

I'm definitely not quiet. I don't just rely on logic - I'm a feeling person too. Sure, I love tradition and loyalty - don't Aspies?


_________________
Me grumpy?
I'm happiness challenged.

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.


Darmok
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14 Apr 2016, 3:42 am

nurseangela wrote:
This is exactly what I meant about the younger generations. It seems all of this "chivalry" changed with feminism.


This is certainly true. Your college algebra professor in 2016 would probably be slapped with a Title IX lawsuit.


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nurseangela
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14 Apr 2016, 3:48 am

Darmok wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Darmok wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
I'm an INTJ too with ADHD and that was a long paragraph.


Does that mean you didn't see the special joke I embedded within it just for you?


It's funny, but Aspie jokes always go over my head. Are you talking about the "trumped" thingy?


Are you sure you're not an iStj?


Also known as the "Mastermind," INTJs are unique, original, and possess a strong desire to execute their ideas and realize their goals. Representing roughly 2 percent of the general population, INTJs easily recognize patterns in events and establish thorough explanations. When they are dedicated to a task, INTJs easily organize and accomplish what needs to be done. Skeptical and autonomous, they maintain high standards for themselves, coworkers, friends, and family.
Are not threatened by confrontation or criticism
Are self-confident
Place relationships and commitments as a high priority
Are very intelligent with lots of potential
Know when it is right to end a relationship
Always try to improve relationships
Are great listeners.
Have difficulty expressing feelings and emotions
Possess a strong belief in their personal opinions
Lack the ability to accept blame
Possess a constant quest for improvement that may be difficult on relationships
Tend to restrict part of themselves

That's me.


_________________
Me grumpy?
I'm happiness challenged.

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.


nurseangela
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14 Apr 2016, 3:51 am

Darmok wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
This is exactly what I meant about the younger generations. It seems all of this "chivalry" changed with feminism.


This is certainly true. Your college algebra professor in 2016 would probably be slapped with a Title IX lawsuit.


What kind of lawsuit is that?

And how can you be an INTJ and be Aspie?


_________________
Me grumpy?
I'm happiness challenged.

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.