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Ganondox
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08 Sep 2016, 1:03 am

xile123 wrote:
connieapmag wrote:
yes, its just that they feel others' emotions too intensely to cope. Understanding what another person is thinking and feeling is difficult for someone with Asperger’s. But this is different from not having the capacity to care and be concerned about people’s feelings.


myth.


No, it is not. What is actually a myth is autistic people "not having the capacity to care and be concerned about people’s feelings."


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Chichikov
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08 Sep 2016, 2:30 am

Jayo wrote:
They say that Aspies lacking (cognitive) empathy is like THE hallmark of the condition

Who is this "they"? I've only ever heard that said on this forum, and only as a precursor to regurgitate patronising pseudoscience and even more myths about people with AS having "too much" empathy, then the thread turns into an identical thread to all other others on this subject where the original premise stated is never even proven.



Ganondox
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08 Sep 2016, 2:41 am

Chichikov wrote:
Jayo wrote:
They say that Aspies lacking (cognitive) empathy is like THE hallmark of the condition

Who is this "they"? I've only ever heard that said on this forum, and only as a precursor to regurgitate patronising pseudoscience and even more myths about people with AS having "too much" empathy, then the thread turns into an identical thread to all other others on this subject where the original premise stated is never even proven.


You must have never ventured outside of this forum in order to have come to that conclusion.


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auntblabby
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08 Sep 2016, 3:30 am

i'm relatively good at having empathy much of the time, but relatively poor at expressing it appropriately much of the time.



GarTog
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08 Sep 2016, 4:41 am

Chichikov wrote:
Jayo wrote:
They say that Aspies lacking (cognitive) empathy is like THE hallmark of the condition

Who is this "they"? I've only ever heard that said on this forum, and only as a precursor to regurgitate patronising pseudoscience and even more myths about people with AS having "too much" empathy, then the thread turns into an identical thread to all other others on this subject where the original premise stated is never even proven.


That's the end of that then... ;-)



Sabreclaw
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08 Sep 2016, 4:46 am

I have plenty of empathy. It just so happens that I'm really good at turning a blind eye on anything that doesn't impact me directly.



goatfish57
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08 Sep 2016, 6:15 am

The real questions should be:

Are you a kind and considerate person? For me, the answer is sometimes.

Am I tolerant and forgiving of other people's failings? Not so much.

Am I emotionally available and helpful when others are in trouble? For some people.

Am I willing to do the hard work to improve? Not so much.

Does this make me a bad person? Not so much.

Does this mean I lack empathy and compassion? I have no idea.

To answer the original question, yes! It just might appear different.


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Chichikov
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08 Sep 2016, 12:08 pm

Ganondox wrote:
Chichikov wrote:
Jayo wrote:
They say that Aspies lacking (cognitive) empathy is like THE hallmark of the condition

Who is this "they"? I've only ever heard that said on this forum, and only as a precursor to regurgitate patronising pseudoscience and even more myths about people with AS having "too much" empathy, then the thread turns into an identical thread to all other others on this subject where the original premise stated is never even proven.


You must have never ventured outside of this forum in order to have come to that conclusion.

Such as other on-line forums\groups where the same people with the same toxic opinions hang out? If so why are they any different from this place? I was referring to the real world.



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08 Sep 2016, 12:35 pm

somanyspoons wrote:
phD can kiss my tushy


This really made me laugh, so I repeated it out loud.

I then realised that you had (perhaps inadvertently) invented a new tongue twister.

phD can tish my tushy
phD can kish my tushy
phD can tish my cushy

LOL



tanq
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08 Sep 2016, 1:05 pm

This lack-of-empathy nonsense was cooked up by arrogant neurotypicals who think their clinical observations reveal the inner workings of another person's mind. In "Be Different", John Elder Robison suggests this myth started when researchers noticed that people on the spectrum don't instantly mirror another person's facial expressions. I have an intellectual empathy - when I understand another person's hardship, I empathize. As a child I felt great anxiety when I learned about starving children, burn victims, and others in great physical or emotional pain. I couldn't stop thinking about the horror they must be experiencing. I still have a strong sense of empathy, but I no longer obsess over the hardship of others.



racheypie666
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08 Sep 2016, 1:47 pm

I have empathy but I often get annoyed at what I perceive to be false empathy in neurotypicals. For example, if a disaster or deaths are reported on the news and everybody acts genuinely sad, it annoys me because I cannot see how this sadness can be genuine. Events affecting people you have no connection to or prior knowledge of is unlikely to elicit genuine empathy, unless you share some other thing in common with them: i.e. I can feel empathy for a victim of misogyny, because I am a woman, but not feel any for a drowning victim I never met.

When I have voiced these opinions I have been told they are inappropriate. Maybe it's just me.

I sometimes have to work harder to express empathy in personal situations. For example, a lovely colleague of mine is being bullied by another colleague, and told me all about it, tears and all. I was sorry it happened but I didn't know what to do or how to express that empathy; I listened, offered practical support, apologised I could not be more of an emotional comfort, and hugged her when she asked for a hug (I do not hug, it took effort 8O ). I think I did an OK job, as my empathy was genuine, but as I say I struggled to express it naturally.



Nine7752
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08 Sep 2016, 2:02 pm

Empathy? Who cares...

What I mean is that I've had to work long and hard even partially stop being afraid of what others are feeling and how it might affect me. Granted, it's "fear of others' feelings" instead of "feeling others feelings". But I'm a happier person with less empathy except for those close to me.


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08 Sep 2016, 2:52 pm

Adamantium wrote:
Empathy is poorly defined and an absence of empathy is not the hallmark of the condition, though many may speak of it that way because it seems like effective shorthand for "Persistent deficits in social communication and social interaction across multiple contexts" which is one of the hallmarks of autism and requires considerable explanation to be understood.

There are almost certainly multiple developmental paths to autism, and some of these may effect reciprocity in social and emotional communication (what people usually mean when they misuse "empathy") to a greater degree than others.

Neuroplasticity means none of this is set in stone, new abilities can be gained and new skills developed or existing skills improved, so there is always reason to be hopeful.

Very eloquently and accurately put, IMO.



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08 Sep 2016, 3:16 pm

racheypie666 wrote:
I have empathy but I often get annoyed at what I perceive to be false empathy in neurotypicals. For example, if a disaster or deaths are reported on the news and everybody acts genuinely sad, it annoys me because I cannot see how this sadness can be genuine. Events affecting people you have no connection to or prior knowledge of is unlikely to elicit genuine empathy, unless you share some other thing in common with them: i.e. I can feel empathy for a victim of misogyny, because I am a woman, but not feel any for a drowning victim I never met.

When I have voiced these opinions I have been told they are inappropriate. Maybe it's just me.
.


It's not just you. This happens to me as well.

For example, I am British, and on the day that Lady Diana died, I was abroad on holiday in Spain. The Spanish family with whom I was staying came and approached me soberly and told me "we have some terrible news for you." I got very worried, thinking one of my family might have died. But they told me gently that Lady Diana had died. Then they watched me carefully as though expecting me to break down and burst into tears.

I was puzzled, and said to them "why are you telling me this?" and they also got very puzzled by my response. They said to me "why don't you care? Aren't you sad?" I said to them "why would I be sad? I don't know her"

They looked at me strangely like I was very weird. I kept having to defend myself and explain over and over again that I had never met Lady Diana, and didn't know her personally so her death was not a personal loss for me.

However, I then returned back to the UK, and in my family's house in Britain, the TV was on and everybody was watching the televised funeral procession and my whole family was crying. The TV presenters were sounding so sad, and the TV cameras were showing footage of mass mourning showing the British public weeping on the streets. This mass outpouring of emotion infected me, and I also became sad and also cried.

Lesson I learned:

1. Irrational displays of overwhelming mass emotion can be infectious, and media coverage of tragedies can manipulate us into feeling emotions that we did not originally feel.

2. When not being infected and swept along by NTs' mass emotions, my own individual emotional response to the death of a perfect stranger tends to be a very logical and rational response, which for some reason tends to offend NTs.

Of course I felt very sorry for Princess Diana's sons for losing their mother at such a young age. However, millions of children all over the world are bereaved of their parents every single day, and people don't go crying about them. Seemingly, they all wanted to cry about Lady Diana purely because she was famous.

I find it unreasonable for people like me and racheypie666 to be depicted as "heartless" for not crying about the death of one specific famous woman, when millions of non-famous unknown women die every year, and the world doesn't pause to mourn their deaths en masse.



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08 Sep 2016, 4:09 pm

^
I don't think I knew anybody who got significantly emotional about the death of Princess Diana. One good thing about my choosing "alternative types" as friends is that I can voice my true feelings about such matters without any fear of being considered non-empathic. Here's an alternative comedian's take on the thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1H913UqQ6w



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08 Sep 2016, 4:40 pm

I was upset/bothered by the death of Diana, but much more so by Robin Williams' suicide. I actually cried during my psychiatrist appointment talking about it.