How Anti-Vaxxers Shame Autistic Kids.

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skibum
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27 Jul 2019, 12:43 pm

Arganger wrote:
skibum wrote:
timf wrote:

2. While there is some benefit from vaccinations, there are legitimate concerns and risks. The polarized views that it is all good or all bad tends to shut the door on truth that could be useful for parents. Shouting either view more loudly is of no help either.

Some areas of concern I have as a parent after doing some research on risks is that I prefer not to have a child under 3 vaccinated. I also prefer single dose administration. One of the risks I see is the potential for a side effect of brain inflammation and swelling. This can (if severe enough) result in brain damage.

One has to remember that doctors are no longer professionals (free to make and follow a "profession" - declaration of ethical standard) They have become employees of corporations and are bound to follow the instructions of their employers. This means that each person and parent needs to do more research on their own than to rely solely on a corporate agent.
I agree with this. For example, if I were a parent, I would choose to either have my child vaccinated with the MMR vaccine after the age of three or opt to have them administered like I had them, not as MMR but as M, M, and R, in three separate vaccines that are appropriately spaced.


They are safe at the planned time, so it's better to be protected sooner than later.
Delaying has no benefit unless you have a compromised immune system.

I would still opt for the three separate vaccines as I had them.


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27 Jul 2019, 2:59 pm

firemonkey wrote:
^ Are you really disagreeing with the copious amounts of research showing absolutely no connection between autism and vaccines ?! ! !


I think everything just looks really fishy when it comes to vaccines, and that we dont have enough information on it yet, regardless of what studies have already been conducted. Everyone thought that that guy that said that the sun was good for you was crazy too, until scientists discovered that the sun provided us with vitamin D and some other benefits. All im saying is that I think its a possibility and we should keep an open mind. I have no problem with AUTISM, however.



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27 Jul 2019, 3:23 pm

Could vaccines cause other neurological disorders too, like ADHD or intellectual learning disabilities?

I think the MMR gave me my AS, and my brother's AS too. :(
My mum said that both me and my brother had fevers straight after our MMR jabs. My brother got a terrible ear infection with his fever, and he was more unwell than the other children that had their vaccines at the same time. When I had mine, I came down with a fever too, and my personality changed rather noticeably. I went from being a rather placid toddler, to a very grizzly toddler that seemed sensitive to everything and was suddenly more hyperactive than I was before. It's not what the actual personality traits are that's peculiar, but it's the sudden change of personality traits right after the vaccine that is peculiar, especially that they didn't go away and it was the child I had become. So is it coincidence that my personality abruptly altered when I had the MMR vaccine? My mum reckons I wasn't the same after that.

So that is living proof that the MMR vaccine can cause autism. I'm not saying it's the ONLY cause, as autism existed long before the vaccines. But I think it is one of many causes. Or maybe me and my brother were both born NTs but carried some sort of gene that made our brains more vulnerable to slight damage if vaccinated or whatever, and so that gave us AS. I don't know.

In the later 90s when I found out about vaccines and autism, it gave me a phobia of having any more vaccines in case I became more autistic.


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27 Jul 2019, 3:45 pm

Joe90 wrote:
Could vaccines cause other neurological disorders too, like ADHD or intellectual learning disabilities?

I think the MMR gave me my AS, and my brother's AS too. :(
My mum said that both me and my brother had fevers straight after our MMR jabs. My brother got a terrible ear infection with his fever, and he was more unwell than the other children that had their vaccines at the same time. When I had mine, I came down with a fever too, and my personality changed rather noticeably. I went from being a rather placid toddler, to a very grizzly toddler that seemed sensitive to everything and was suddenly more hyperactive than I was before. It's not what the actual personality traits are that's peculiar, but it's the sudden change of personality traits right after the vaccine that is peculiar, especially that they didn't go away and it was the child I had become. So is it coincidence that my personality abruptly altered when I had the MMR vaccine? My mum reckons I wasn't the same after that.

So that is living proof that the MMR vaccine can cause autism. I'm not saying it's the ONLY cause, as autism existed long before the vaccines. But I think it is one of many causes. Or maybe me and my brother were both born NTs but carried some sort of gene that made our brains more vulnerable to slight damage if vaccinated or whatever, and so that gave us AS. I don't know.

In the later 90s when I found out about vaccines and autism, it gave me a phobia of having any more vaccines in case I became more autistic.


No. No vaccine can change the wiring of your brain. Vaccines have never caused autism in anyone ever, including you.


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27 Jul 2019, 4:03 pm

jngyslate wrote:
I think everything just looks really fishy when it comes to vaccines, and that we don't have enough information on it yet, regardless of what studies have already been conducted...
What you think is not evidence enough to support your claim. Unless you are more highly trained than any scientist who has actually researched this matter, your opinion on this matter is completely irrelevant.
Joe90 wrote:
... So is it coincidence that my personality abruptly altered when I had the MMR vaccine? My mum reckons I wasn't the same after that. So that is living proof that the MMR vaccine can cause autism...
What you or your mom thinks is not evidence enough to support your claim. Unless you or you mom are more highly trained than any scientist who has actually researched this matter, your opinion on this matter is completely irrelevant.

I once sliced my hand open on some broken glass (I was 3-1/2 at the time). All the way to the hospital, my uncle (he was driving) kept telling me that it didn't hurt, that I was being a big baby, that I should stop crying. At the hospital, the nurses and the doctor said that the needles and stitched weren't going to hurt, that I should not be scared, and that I should stop crying.

THEY WERE ALL A BUNCH OF SLOP-SUCKING LIARS!! It hurt like Hell, and I just wanted them to stop hurting me.

My relatives all said that my behavior changed after that, from happy go-lucky to sullen and quiet. It had nothing to do with any MMR vaccine, but with the belittling attitudes and the outright lies told to me by them and the medical staff. It still disgusts me when a doctor or dentist tells me that what they are about to do won't hurt, and then they belittle me afterward for reacting to the pain that they caused.

Even after all of that, not one of you (including Joe90's mom) has any credibility at all compared to trained and licensed medical practitioners -- even the ones that lied to me about the pain knew more about medicine (but not bedside manner) than all three of you put together, and I would rather trust their word than the words of ordinary people who cannot tell the difference between correlation and causation.


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27 Jul 2019, 4:21 pm

Fnord does it again. Great post, great content--this was an interesting read, WP, on a topic I had not noticed.

Wonder how the anti-vaxxers feel about autistic adults???


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27 Jul 2019, 5:20 pm

OK I'm not saying me or my mum are right. I don't particularly want to believe that vaccines cause autism, otherwise it will haunt me for the rest of my life that I started off as NT and turned into a spectrumer. Maybe I bumped my head or something, which damaged my fragile brain.

But apart from the fact that autism existed before vaccines, what other evidence do professionally trained scientists have that vaccines cause autism? (It is a matter-of-fact question, no sarcasm involved).


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27 Jul 2019, 6:48 pm

Fnord wrote:
jngyslate wrote:
I think everything just looks really fishy when it comes to vaccines, and that we don't have enough information on it yet, regardless of what studies have already been conducted...
What you think is not evidence enough to support your claim. Unless you are more highly trained than any scientist who has actually researched this matter, your opinion on this matter is completely irrelevant.
Joe90 wrote:
... So is it coincidence that my personality abruptly altered when I had the MMR vaccine? My mum reckons I wasn't the same after that. So that is living proof that the MMR vaccine can cause autism...
What you or your mom thinks is not evidence enough to support your claim. Unless you or you mom are more highly trained than any scientist who has actually researched this matter, your opinion on this matter is completely irrelevant.

I once sliced my hand open on some broken glass (I was 3-1/2 at the time). All the way to the hospital, my uncle (he was driving) kept telling me that it didn't hurt, that I was being a big baby, that I should stop crying. At the hospital, the nurses and the doctor said that the needles and stitched weren't going to hurt, that I should not be scared, and that I should stop crying.

THEY WERE ALL A BUNCH OF SLOP-SUCKING LIARS!! It hurt like Hell, and I just wanted them to stop hurting me.

My relatives all said that my behavior changed after that, from happy go-lucky to sullen and quiet. It had nothing to do with any MMR vaccine, but with the belittling attitudes and the outright lies told to me by them and the medical staff. It still disgusts me when a doctor or dentist tells me that what they are about to do won't hurt, and then they belittle me afterward for reacting to the pain that they caused.

Even after all of that, not one of you (including Joe90's mom) has any credibility at all compared to trained and licensed medical practitioners -- even the ones that lied to me about the pain knew more about medicine (but not bedside manner) than all three of you put together, and I would rather trust their word than the words of ordinary people who cannot tell the difference between correlation and causation.



Sweetie, I never claimed to have rock solid evidence of my claim. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and to speak their mind. Noone has evidence of anything until someone finds the evidence, and (I shouldnt have to say this) but scientists are wrong about things all of the time. To say that something is irrefutably true just because you heard some imperfect humans say it is ridiculous. The only claim that I have made is that vaccines MAY cause autism. How it may do this, I dont know. This is not something to get your panties in a wad over, noone knows everything every second of the day.



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27 Jul 2019, 6:49 pm

skibum wrote:

I find the anti vax argument fascinating. I wonder how they explain all of the people who were Autistic before the first vaccine was ever invented.

Common things they say are "There were no people with autism when I was growing up" or sarcastically ask "Where are the 50 something autistics?". We know that autistics were undiagnosed, misdiagnosed or locked away.

So not only are they saying autism is worse than some horrible disease or death, they are denying our very existence. Yes I take it personally.


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27 Jul 2019, 6:53 pm

By the way, thats why I used the example of all of the scientists that made fun of the guy that said that it was beneficial to be outside in the sun sometimes. Scientists mocked him and said that it was preposterous, until evidence was found to support his claims. We now know that we can obtain Vitamin D and other benefits from being in the sun. But, this must have flown right over his head! :heart:



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27 Jul 2019, 7:03 pm

Fnord wrote:
jngyslate wrote:
I think everything just looks really fishy when it comes to vaccines, and that we don't have enough information on it yet, regardless of what studies have already been conducted...
What you think is not evidence enough to support your claim. Unless you are more highly trained than any scientist who has actually researched this matter, your opinion on this matter is completely irrelevant.
Joe90 wrote:
... So is it coincidence that my personality abruptly altered when I had the MMR vaccine? My mum reckons I wasn't the same after that. So that is living proof that the MMR vaccine can cause autism...
What you or your mom thinks is not evidence enough to support your claim. Unless you or you mom are more highly trained than any scientist who has actually researched this matter, your opinion on this matter is completely irrelevant.

I once sliced my hand open on some broken glass (I was 3-1/2 at the time). All the way to the hospital, my uncle (he was driving) kept telling me that it didn't hurt, that I was being a big baby, that I should stop crying. At the hospital, the nurses and the doctor said that the needles and stitched weren't going to hurt, that I should not be scared, and that I should stop crying.

THEY WERE ALL A BUNCH OF SLOP-SUCKING LIARS!! It hurt like Hell, and I just wanted them to stop hurting me.

My relatives all said that my behavior changed after that, from happy go-lucky to sullen and quiet. It had nothing to do with any MMR vaccine, but with the belittling attitudes and the outright lies told to me by them and the medical staff. It still disgusts me when a doctor or dentist tells me that what they are about to do won't hurt, and then they belittle me afterward for reacting to the pain that they caused.

Even after all of that, not one of you (including Joe90's mom) has any credibility at all compared to trained and licensed medical practitioners -- even the ones that lied to me about the pain knew more about medicine (but not bedside manner) than all three of you put together, and I would rather trust their word than the words of ordinary people who cannot tell the difference between correlation and causation.


Thank You, Fnord...Just....Thank you .



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28 Jul 2019, 8:18 am

Borromeo wrote:
Fnord does it again. Great post, great content--this was an interesting read, WP, on a topic I had not noticed.

Wonder how the anti-vaxxers feel about autistic adults???


From my experience with the nasty things, extreme disgust at the thought we may even exist.


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28 Jul 2019, 5:45 pm

There certainly WERE autistic people 50, 100, or more years ago.

50 years ago, many who would be Aspergian or “high-functioning” today (yes, there were many) would have been diagnosed with “minimal brain dysfunction,” “childhood schizophrenia,” or worse. Many were institutionalized. I was one of the lucky ones.

If vaccines caused autism, there would have been an “epidemic” of autism in the 50s and 60s, when vaccinations increases greatly.



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28 Jul 2019, 5:50 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
There certainly WERE autistic people 50, 100, or more years ago.

50 years ago, many who would be Aspergian or “high-functioning” today (yes, there were many) would have been diagnosed with “minimal brain dysfunction,” “childhood schizophrenia,” or worse. Many were institutionalized. I was one of the lucky ones.

If vaccines caused autism, there would have been an “epidemic” of autism in the 50s and 60s, when vaccinations increases greatly.



We have so many more vaccinations now than we had in the 1950's though. And sometimes the vaccinations are given very close together. I think its dumb (sorry for lack of a better word to use??) to assume that we KNOW what injecting all kinds of weird substances into our body, can actually do to our body? We know that it helps stave off diseases, but what ELSE does it do? This is common across the board with tons of consumption products, they dont get tested thoroughly all of the time. Or, we are unaware of what testing needs to be done. I think its safe to say that injecting people from a very young age with strange substances could have some bad consequences, and it just hasnt been studied enough. And thats all that IVE ever said about it.. that it MIGHT cause autism, and that we need to research it more. But obviously some people get very high strung about this! :lol: :heart:



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28 Jul 2019, 5:53 pm

Because people use this as an excuse not to get vaccinated.



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28 Jul 2019, 5:58 pm

I all for research...and for the Scientific Method, by the way.

I’m not a “get red under the collar” sort of guy.

But the anti-vaxxers advocate not vaccinating their children, without realizing what vaccination has done throughout history to alleviate disease and suffering.