Am I disrespectful / bad person for wanting a 2nd opinion?

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Double Retired
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14 Oct 2020, 7:16 pm

I'm going to go a slightly different route than some of the others.

Even if it gets you no legal benefit, if it gets you a psychological benefit it makes sense (to me) seek a formal diagnosis.

An official diagnosis is not the same as a strong, unofficial opinion. I was pretty sure of my diagnosis before I looked for a psychologist to give me an official diagnosis. I would've felt the need for the rest of forever to mention that an unofficial diagnosis was an unofficial opinion.


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14 Oct 2020, 8:10 pm

Did you get diagnosed with anything? Because what you posted from the report implies that you got a diagnosis:

Quote:
Understanding how his diagnosis impacts on his life


Or maybe that's about a previous diagnosis?

I don't understand why you think going for a second opinion might make you a bad person, so I guess I can't really comment on that.

With respect to wanting a diagnosis to help explain yourself to other people, I caution you to not rely on a diagnosis to explain yourself. You could actually make a situation worse by telling someone that you are autistic or have autistic traits because some people have negative perceptions of or inaccurate ideas about autism. This applies to general social situations. If you want a diagnosis to explain yourself in situations that are specifically related to disability accommodations or medical issues, then yes, a diagnosis would definitely be helpful (although social problems could still crop up).

In general social situations, I think it is better to simply own your personality traits rather than tell people that you have something that is conceptualized as a disorder. What I mean is that you basically say "this is who I am, these are my likes/dislikes/preferences, this is what I will/won't do, this is what I can/cannot do, this is my personality, either deal with it or don't interact with me." Of course you don't have to use those exact words or give people a "my way or the highway" ultimatum; tailor the message to the context.

The point of explaining yourself this way is to lead people to respecting the reality, the facts, of who you are, whether they like you or not, rather than handing them the opportunity to view you as disordered or the opportunity to decide whether your personality and behavior are legitimate rather than "just symptoms." You guide them towards dealing with you on an objective, factual basis instead of dealing with you in the subjective realm of whatever random opinions and impressions and possible misinformation that pops into their head when they hear you reference the neuropsychological diagnosis of autism.

Of course, if you are talking to someone who is knowledgeable and unbiased about autism or you specifically want to represent autism by being openly autistic, go for it. Just be aware of the possible consequences.



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14 Oct 2020, 8:20 pm

Everybody is entitled to a second opinion, it is often expected one will try and get a second opinion.

As far as the non-diagnosis is concerned to me the OP and the psych agree about what the issues are but disagree as to what label to describe these issues. There are two schools of thought. One school says it is possible to "grow out" of or "recover" from autism. This is based on Autism being a disorder the "D" in ASD stands for disorder. If your autistic traits no longer disorder you, you are not autistic anymore. The other school says once an autistic always an autistic. This school does not deny some autistic people can learn to be functional enough to appear NT but emphasizes that it takes more effort to do this than it does for the average person putting them at higher risk for burnout. They believe that autistics who have learned to fit in are well served by knowing they are autistic so they can try and avoid doing things that trigger burnout and deal with it better if it happens.


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AuroraBorealisGazer
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14 Oct 2020, 8:24 pm

Hokcone1 wrote:
AuroraBorealisGazer wrote:
^
^
Thank you for posting the doctors assessment. I'm not very good at reading in-between the lines, but I believe the doctor may have in fact diagnosed you with ASD. On your paperwork are there any areas where they have to clearly state a definite diagnosis? If not, could you call and ask for clarification - a simple "yes" or "no" answer?


Thanks - No there is nothing more definitive. I queried at the final session myself and asked whether this is a diagnosis of ASD and the explanation given was that it wasn't, that in effect if I was to imagine a bar chart with all the ASD trait difficulties that I have, that they would bring me to a level where it would be ASD (in effect, let's say the difficulties each have a negative value) but that due to my coping mechanisms and strengths, these have a positive value which when they net out, mean that I don't reach the clincal level.

When this got explained to me, I thought "Ok", but it still weighed on me and I think that's why I've found it so difficult to let go. I know I'm very fortunate to have these strengths but they don't fully offset and replace my weaknesses, they just compensate and mask them, if that makes sense?


Oh okay, I see what you mean. Yes, time for a second opinion then. In the meantime I hope you'll stick around WP :) .



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14 Oct 2020, 8:46 pm

Jiheisho wrote:
But it does look like you do need support and your employer is providing it to you. If you were not there, another company might have fired you. I know about the DSM-5 in the US, but not your country's criteria. But if you are having significant challenges in a social or occupational setting, then you get an ASD diagnosis..


This really depends on i) whether the orgnaisation the OP works in has an inclusive recruitment policy and ii) how much support he is likely to have from his current employer.
If there is a positive answer to both i) and ii) then a diagnosis might provide special consideration for your circumstance. If on the other hand there is unlikely to be support then all a diagnosis will do is provide ammunition for your employer to retrench you (I have seen this happen).



Hokcone1
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15 Oct 2020, 2:57 am

starkid wrote:
Did you get diagnosed with anything? Because what you posted from the report implies that you got a diagnosis:

Quote:
Understanding how his diagnosis impacts on his life


Or maybe that's about a previous diagnosis


Nope, no diagnosis of ASD or prior diagnosis. I got the feeling that certain generalised sections of the report and recommendations may have been cut and paste from a previous report and that "traits of ASD" was inserted for "ASD". For instance, the report actually had the wrong name included at one point and referred to me as, let's say, "John" instead of [Hokcone1]. No second name was used so wasn't identifiable of anybody else and it's a non-issue but I think a prior ASD diagnosis report was used as template and then tailored to make it a "traits of ASD" report. I have no issue with that from the assessor, it's a common thing for anybody to do in any line of work, no point reinventing the wheel for every report.


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15 Oct 2020, 3:06 am

Go for a

.


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15 Oct 2020, 5:04 am

I think the report is indicating that you are autistic, in the sense of having autistic brain wiring (welcome to the club!)

But because autism is diagnosed through behavioural observations and you mask so well, they can't give you a formal diagnosis. You didn't score badly enough!

(It really is time we had a neurological diagnostic test, hey)

But in answer to your query, I'm thinking you already know you're autistic, right? So no point forking out for a second opinion unless you need the formal diagnosis to receive supports.



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15 Oct 2020, 5:09 am

Hokcone1 wrote:
starkid wrote:
Did you get diagnosed with anything? Because what you posted from the report implies that you got a diagnosis:

Quote:
Understanding how his diagnosis impacts on his life


Or maybe that's about a previous diagnosis


Nope, no diagnosis of ASD or prior diagnosis. I got the feeling that certain generalised sections of the report and recommendations may have been cut and paste from a previous report and that "traits of ASD" was inserted for "ASD". For instance, the report actually had the wrong name included at one point and referred to me as, let's say, "John" instead of [Hokcone1]. No second name was used so wasn't identifiable of anybody else and it's a non-issue but I think a prior ASD diagnosis report was used as template and then tailored to make it a "traits of ASD" report. I have no issue with that from the assessor, it's a common thing for anybody to do in any line of work, no point reinventing the wheel for every report.


Your assessment should not have been cut and paste. That is very unprofessional. A report is one thing, a professional autism assessment should be individualized and never should it be cut and paste.


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15 Oct 2020, 5:51 am

blazingstar wrote:
Your assessment should not have been cut and paste. That is very unprofessional. A report is one thing, a professional autism assessment should be individualized and never should it be cut and paste.

This is very true. They are disrespectful towards you by doing it.

I relate to your situation very much, I have only an unofficial diagnosis, too and I, too, use mental capacity and pattern thinking to navigate social world successfully enough.
However, reading your posts, I see also something that a-few-years-ago myself would relate to very much, and it worries me.
You write like a person so used to be treated like cr*p, accepting blame for other people's faults, even trying to explain that you don't blame these specialist to make a really poor job with your report. Apparently, you view it as normal enough that the only question you ask is weather you are nice.
Heck, I've been there.

You mentioned some family history that you don't want to share. It's absolutely okay not to share things you're not comfortable sharing but the very existence of this topic combined with your self-blaming attitude suggests you would really benefit from adressing your past of home abuse survivor.

Before you run away scared: I've been there. My parents are good people - but they suffered from unadressed mental health issues that hindered my emotional development. I'm a link in a multi-generational chain of C-PTSD. I've learned to cope using pattern-analytical skills and enormous self-control but the cost was, I never learned to understand and adress my own needs or even that it's okay to have them. The effect? Complete collapse of mental health at 30, followed by a misdiagnosis and narrowly escaping being swept into psychiatric mistreatment and existence of an over-mis-medicated suffering vegetable for the rest of my life.

You need mental health specialists who respect you and adress you as an individual. Go for second and third opinions until you find some.


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Steve B
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15 Oct 2020, 6:04 am

The assessor clearly believes you are autistic in all but name and were very close to the diagnostic threshold. You are just so damn smart that you have figured out a way to function in NT society, but at great cost to your mental health.

It looks like you got a good assessor who knew what they were doing, even if you didn't get the outcome you hoped for. They knew about masking and the effect of high IQ and the part you quoted sounds like the final opinions section which looks well considered and individualised to me.

I think it's worth getting a second opinion. I suspect your poor mental health comes in part from exhaustion from bending yourself into a pretzel to try and fit what your believe others expect of you. Chronic mental health problems from over masking can be argued as evidence of an impairment from ASD symptoms required for a formal diagnosis. This is implied in the DSM-5 at least.

Assessing an adult for ASD is one of the most complex kinds of assessments that can be asked of a clinical psychologist. Especially for someone with your superior IQ and coping skills

It's not cool to have another persons name in the report, but that doesn't mean they cut a pasted sections.



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15 Oct 2020, 9:24 am

Hokcone1 wrote:
...and did IQ assessment...which put me in the 98th percentile...

That, by the way, that satisfies one of the two criteria for joining Mensa. The other criteria is paying your dues. :)

And I'm still inclined to think that if you would like it to be official, you should try to get an official diagnosis. Even if you do not intend to seek treatment or accommodations it might give you some peace of mind. And, if you choose to tell someone you won't need to qualify your statement with "...I think I am...".

P.S. I made it to two retirements before I even considered the possibility that I might be autistic. When both my bride and I concluded I was probably a "High Functioning Autistic" I definitely wanted an official diagnosis--being even mildly autistic seems significant to me and if I chose to tell someone I didn't want to feel obligated to qualify it as being an opinion.

I can identify a few intangible benefits of my diagnosis:
 - I understand my life better
 - I think it is interesting
 - I get to annoy my bride by saying "I have a doctor's note for that!"

I am still trying to achieve one, specific tangible benefit from the diagnosis. I now know my medical providers should allow for my autism when they communicate with me. Sigh. I can see how my mild autism has been sabotaging some of my medical interactions in the past but I am making poor progress in correcting it. (If this interests you then perhaps start with https://aaspire.org/ and https://autismandhealth.org.)

Oh, and there is a fringe benefit: WP!


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Donald Morton
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15 Oct 2020, 9:36 am

Seeking a second opinion concerning health issues, physical or psychological is not unusual. In fact it is quite common. Do not know where the "having a high IQ does not qualify an ASD diagnosis" comes from because I was diagnosed by a psychiatrist and psychologist as being in the spectrum regardless of my high IQ. There might be an unusual circumstance that is a contributor to consider though.


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15 Oct 2020, 9:50 am

If his provider thinks you're only autistic if the autism is causing you significant problems then there could be a correlation with intelligence. Intelligence might help someone adapt to their environment--which appears to be what his provider cares about.

(I'm glad all medical providers don't work like that. The only time you'd see them is when you were in your deathbed! :skull: )


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15 Oct 2020, 12:39 pm

You have to get ten assessments to have reasonable odds that one was perfomed by someone who understands their job vs the majority who are flying blind, just using the rule book. Of course it looks disrespectful to the fools, so it is a good idea to find some excuse to help them save face if you can.



Hokcone1
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15 Oct 2020, 3:49 pm

Double Retired wrote:

And I'm still inclined to think that if you would like it to be official, you should try to get an official diagnosis. Even if you do not intend to seek treatment or accommodations it might give you some peace of mind. And, if you choose to tell someone you won't need to qualify your statement with "...I think I am...".

P.S. I made it to two retirements before I even considered the possibility that I might be autistic. When both my bride and I concluded I was probably a "High Functioning Autistic" I definitely wanted an official diagnosis--being even mildly autistic seems significant to me and if I chose to tell someone I didn't want to feel obligated to qualify it as being an opinion.


Thanks everyone for all the feedback, kind of overwhelmed with response (I haven't posted on a message board / forum in years, not in 15 years at least, forgot people would be good for giving feedback on these), really appreciate it.

Thanks a lot DoubleRetired as well, your quote above hits the nail on the head as to my issue I think and where I'm coming from. Really happy to have posted on WP after all this time, wish I had done it sooner. :D :D :D


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