High Testosterone?

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In a nutshell.
It's the idea that autism is tied in with prenatal testosterone levels, delayed onset of puberty, and matriarchal vs. patriarchal societies.

Well all seven kids my mum had are boys, does that suggest high prenatal testosterone?

I don't think that is related eamonn.
Here is another interesting article though.

http://www.autismresearchcentre.com/doc ... g_etal.pdf

Apparently austistics have a lower ration of length of the 2nd and 4th digits, which is also assumed to be caused by prenatal testosterone.

Hmm maybe I'll make a poll

What are you, an NT?

nope

I have thought about this a bit and I have heard (I believe) that Lesbianism is associated with high testosterone levels in utero (or maybe I'm hallucinating, I can't remember). But I also find it odd that even the DSM notes that there is a higher rate of women with Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome (which is what I have)-- that can cause a rise in testosterone levels with some unfortunate side effects-- who also happen to be Lesbian. But this PCOS is of course WAY after utero yet it suggests that hormones were messed up LONG ago I should think.

So, to tie the two together and assuming that testosterone and Lesbianism are somewhat related, for all you female Aspies out there: Are there any of you who are more prone to Lesbianism or Bisexuality??? Please take into account whether you are one to have a very liberal view of sexual conformity (the lack thereof) and thus are more likely to "experiment" and whether, in a stricter and less accepting time as this, you wouldn't still be attracted to that sex. (Sorry, I think I've just made this more complicated than it has to be...)

Because if there isn't any higher rate of Lesbianism in the female Aspie population, that would lead one to consider that raised testosterone levels in utero-- at least for FEMALES-- isn't necessarily the cause of their Auttiness.

Anyone? Anyone?

Do they have any coupons for Common Sense? 'Cause I'm a little short on cash right now but I really need some.

no but there is a discout for aspies

Yeah the ring finger is supposedly longer than the index finger, I have that and it appears I think my oldest son does as well. My NT son's index finger is longer than the ring finger. So maybe there is some interesting coincidence.

Even as a woman, I feel like I'm in a foreign country in a room of females. While I grew up wanting some things other females wanted like children and a family. A lot of things most females did, I didn't fully understand and when I did have friends or acquaintances, it gravitated towards males. They seemed to oddly understand me better. I grew up as a tomboy and now as a woman of almost 32, I'm still towards that leaning.

I'm not sure how it all may link into high testosterone exposure but I also ended up somehow with an abnormally high sex drive that even some male friends have commented is very very unusual for a woman and even for some guys.

As far as lesbianism/bisexuality is concerned, while I prefer to be with men, it doesn't stop me from finding women attractive in more than just being beautiful and all. I've had very limited experience when it comes to this. Probably because females either avoid me out of intimidation due to attention I received in my life from males or something, I'm confused.

eamonn, sex of a baby is determined at conception which is too early for testosterone levels in the womb to have any affect on that aspect.

I think men OFTEN have the ring finger longer than the index. Just because they are male and have testosterone. Er, something like that.

Well I've read that it can occur in women too and all. I know it did with me. Yeah there were mothers and siblings in the study in that .pdf file too. It just happens more with males, just like with autism.

Austics tend to be born to older women. Older women produce more testerone.

The question is, do younger women with autstic children produce more testerone than other young women their age? Would testerone be a supplemental to some other activity that could cause autism?

until those questions are answered, I don't really see any value in Barron-cohen theories on maleness. Intriguing, yes.



If anything, I am a hairy wookie man with muscles large enough to level several japanese cities.


Only if ye be brave may you look at this.

http://img321.imageshack.us/img321/8091/pict01034bm.jpg

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I'd have to disagree on autistics being born to older women, I know a 24 yr old women that has a 5 yr old autistic son, I was 26 when I got pregnant with my 4 1/2 yr old son with HFA. And my mother was only 25 yrs old when she had me and I have AS, so I don't think age is truly conclusive. Down Syndrome and neural tube defects increased with advanced maternal age but there is no real proof that is the same with autism. Where autism is genetic-based and likely has about 10-100 different genetic markers or so, I highly doubt mother's age would have affect on that as well as testosterone.

I for one don't buy the Baron-Cohen theory, not only because, from what i have heard, the effects of hormones in the womb are much more complex and less predictable than that (for instance, at different stages during pregnancy the same hormone can have completely different, even opposite effects), but also because it would suggest that autistic people would have a *stronger* than normal gender identity, whereas from observation i would argue that most autistic people actually come across as *less* gender-differentiated than normal people (ie, male aspies are more "feminine" than NT males, and female aspies more "masculine" (in so much as those terms have any meaning))...

I for instance am male but have no (either male or female) gender identity, and physically if anything i probably show evidence of *lower* than average testosterone levels (less facial hair than my brother who is 7 years younger, no chest or arm hair at all, and a figure which still looks almost pre-pubescent in muscular (lack of) development (i kind of look like i went thru puberty from the neck up and from the waist down, but it didn't touch me anywhere in between))...

also, a lot of autistic people are asexual, whereas higher testosterone levels would suggest higher levels of sexual arousal (in both males and females, since testosterone is actually given to women in some cases to increase sex drive)...

i've got big doubts about finger length having anything to do with testosterone levels as well... that seems a bit much like palmistry or phrenology to me...

the whole thing seems to be missing the point anyway, as far as i'm concerned... it's too "medical model" in focus imo to be in any real way socially useful... what's more important isn't the physical causes of autism but its effects and how to change society to make them less negative...

Interesting. How delayed is delayed? E.g. for a guy, when do people usually have to start shaving? I'm pretty sure I was later than most of my peers.