Saw Rain Man

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Please name me one person who could live 30 years in an institution of any kind and be capable of surviving outside of one without assistance making the change.

This is why even totally non-disabled criminals have trouble in the real world after 30 years in prison.

This is why ex-nuns have real trouble after 30 years in a convent.

Institutions take away life skills for surviving outside of them, by requiring skills that in many ways are the opposite of ordinary survival skills. They can do this in a matter of months, let alone decades.

Also, I would think in this day and age people would quit saying people "have to live in institutions". Don't people realize there's nothing special about institutions? There's absolutely no quality about them that creates better assistance for disabled people, and there are many qualities about them that create worse assistance for disabled people, hence the surprisingly high mortality rates for all kinds of them. There's nothing good done in them that can't be done somewhere else, and done better somewhere else at that.

Their purpose is not assisting disabled people (even if some people go to work there under that illusion and do their best), their purpose is keeping disabled people shut away from non-disabled people, and in some cases also because they're businesses wanting to make a profit like any other business (this is why the nursing home industry is so big, not because it's good but because they've got rich, powerful lobbyists).

Why do you think I can live outside an institution? The character in "Rain Man" had more ability to take care of himself than I do despite where he lived, he just needed a routine for it all.

There was a woman in California at a conference I went to, and she noted that in all the work she'd done what it taught her was that the population inside state institutions and outside them is identical. It has nothing to do with "functioning level". It has everything to do with opportunity and funding practices (non-institutional assistance is usually cheaper, but harder to get funding for).

I really wish people would stop judging people's abilities by where they live, and saying that people's abilities or lack thereof make them "have to" live in certain places, when that's not true, at least not as a consequence of their abilities. That perpetuates the myth that there is no other way to do things, and that myth is what keeps people locked up totally needlessly.

anbuend,

Interestingly enough, my mother said he'd probably have been "higher-functioning" if he had a home and family with less chaos than what psychiatric hospitals/institutions induce. Whilst one will make a routine everywhere (we adapt), they aren't exactly the most calm of places (whilst my experience with a psychiatric hospital was fairly uneventful, it totally sucked to me, and if I would have had to been there longer than a month, I know my ability to go out amongst people, and do other "normal" things would have vanished in short order).

^^ That's the reason for shutting ppl up in institutions.

Well, originally, there were also eugenic undertones to the reason for it really taking off, at least in America. (Keep the undesirables away from the desirables so they won't interbreed, sterilize them, etc.) But all variations on the same theme.

Edited, to add, see for instance:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aJhMiHrtdI[/youtube]

(Which includes real quotes from people about why they don't want people with developmental disabilities moving into their neighborhood, even if they still live in the mini-institutional format that group homes produce. It's not "because they'd get better care in a large institution," either.)

I'd say that he was mid-functioning. When I've found out that I was on the spectrum, I was thinking that there was no way, that Rain Man and I could possibly both be high-functioning. Who decides what level a person functions at, anyways? There's Sue Ruben who was thought to be Mentally ret*d, until she tested with the result of an IQ of 135, and she has perfect control of her plumbing and sewage systems. There's Rain Man, who's verbal and easy to understand, but he's unaware of the world around him. He had to live in an institution, and he was really good at math, except he had no concept of money. There's Temple Gradin who invented the cattle chute, who lives on her own and has written many books. Donna Williams is another author, who's on the spectrum. She needs to use a timer on her watch, to remind her, when it's time to use the washroom. Albert Einstein was said to be Mentally ret*d, when he was very little, and his teachers told his parents to take his books, away from him. He's grown up to become the greatest genus of his time. There's also that little animated character that I love to pieces, Sid from 'Flushed Away'. He has AS, he lives on his own, until he discovers Roddy's house, he's affectionate, he's gullible at first, but it turns out, that he's a lot smarter, than what Roddy gives him credit for. He also wears rat Depends, because he has a problem with his sewage system. I could have sworn that Ardmann created an animal version of myself, while I wasn't looking. I also live on my own, and I'm a hugger, myself. :O). Just adding my 2 cents.

He's only unaware of what other people see as the "world". I'm acutely aware of the world for example, but I'm not aware of the people in it; I'd appear to be unaware as I don't notice people, but I see many things. Just because one isn't focused on people or "normal" things, doesn't mean they aren't aware.

He didn't have to live in an institution at all.

It didn't take me long to realize I'd expressed myself badly, but I don't have a computer at home so I couldn't check back until now. Apologies to everyone who was offended by my poor choice of words.

I don't know anything about institutions.

If I had more time I'd say something more but I've got to run.

I think the big problem with "Rain Man" is that Raymond is a collection of symptoms without an inner life. Whatever the accuracy/non-accuracy of how those symptoms are presented, the character is sort of an enigma whose world cannot be penetrated and whose feelings cannot be known. There's no person there- which is, of course, the position of most curebies, that one has to take away those autistic things about him before he can become "human". Though the filmmakers try to be benign and would probably never think of themselves as being that judgmental, it falls into those traps in lieu of any other discourse surrounding autism. Raymond becomes used as a means for Tom Cruise to "learn about himself" (which was sort of the gimmick of the recent "Snow Cake") without giving anything substantial back.

He could have lived with his brother, at the end of the movie.

WOW! If you're right, that is pretty dumb. A LOT of people here stim, does that make them LFA? NO WAY! As for routines, WHO CARES? Of course, rain man took that to an extreme where he was almost DEPENDENT on the center. Even the DSM speaks of selfhelp skills, and IQ as determining level. I believe MFA is just a level made up to cover those people that might seem SOMEWHAT OK, but aren't HFA/AS. Anyway, enough people talk about it that it is understood.

Re.institutions.
the ss institutionalised am as an adult [living with mum wasn't safe],until they shut the place down [they're shutting them all down in the UK],it was no way near as bad as the oldskool institutions.
it was a large secure institution complex for people with LD/Autism and high complex needs [though the respite block would take people who could die any time from their disability as well as those with very mild learning difficulties],they also had a large modern looking house built on the complex for those who were more independant.
am lived in the worst and the most secure unit there,but even the least able resident was helped to do something to the best of their ability,it definitely wasn't a left to rot place,even though a lot of the staff were ignorant,abusive law breaking b............s,though this might be one of the differences between the UK and the US' institutions.
Also,some of the residents there had nothing but mild learning difficulties,especially those in the upstairs of the 'normal house',being an institution does not always mean the residents are going to be LF.

Am not sure about rainman,though how can it be given a functioning level as doesnt exist? it would be more about the autistics/savants it was based on,there was kim peek,but also other spectrumers/savants they based it on.

Also,LFA has different meanings,it does not mean ret*d to everyone-retardation does not always make someone low functioning,a lady who is the same age as am who was also in same school/classes as am was quite significantly MR in childhood,but she now lives on her own,doesnt even need a social worker,can read,write etc,and she also works-she was a volunteer steward for the commonwealth games in manchester and she goes around the country with her agency as security for concerts,she told am she was security for a queen concert in london-that is not low functioning yet she was MR.

am take LFA to mean someone who needs full time staffing/care in institution/residential home [or own home if are lucky to get funding,though if are LFA in UK,they will not fund for it all in own home,it has to be residential placement though they will fund it for people who are low functioning through other disabilities as am know members on ouch who managed to win it],who needs help to do things like personal care,who cannot do things without help that many find easy-such as tasks that require several steps together,who has trouble communicating [though might communicate better or perfectly in text,sign,pecs etc],who has high to profound complex needs,who can be a danger to themselves or others,who has no awareness of danger,who needs dedicated staff rather than sharing. etc.

Also, wanted to mention that while I'll identify as someone who's been called LF (and as someone who currently gets stereotyped into that category based on appearance etc), I don't agree with the terminology of LF/HF to begin with because it takes only a part of a person's skills into account and then gives them a blanket level based on that, which is true of almost nobody and causes real problems. I have few differences in skills between now and childhood, but the few areas where skills are different (and failure to acquire some skills that go later) have made people change from often viewing me as what would be HF if they'd used that terminology, to viewing me as I got older as more and more LF, and that's only on the basis of a small number of abilities changing, not my whole set changing.

I don't know that anyone has ever said this before--I just came to it while rewatching these clips: I do think he is a poor representation of someone with autism.

He's too low for HFA and he appears to high for LFA. But, he's too low functioning to be considered Aspergers. Then what is he?

There is a problem with this type of poor representation. How many people were afraid of getting the autism diagnosis because of the movie Rainman? Quite a few.

Someone with Aspergers repeats phrases and words or pontificates on a topic but is more in touch with reality. Rainman, otoh, talked about his boxers or jeapordy at 5:00 or place crashes etc. It was way too scripted. Someone this low functioning would not be able to express their fear about plane crashes. Instead, the autistic would pace, flap, hum, act out, engage in self-injurious behavior etc. Rainman seems too verbal to be so low functioning--it doesn't seem accurate.

I know an Asperger man with savant skills and he can tell the weather on any given day in the same way that Rainman could count the toothpicks or memorized all the facts about crashes. But, this particular man is able to converse with people despite his odd gaze and savant skills.

jmo.

MFA?

I agree with what anbuend said, but how can someone avoid living in an institution if their family can't help them out and they don't have insurance that covers the type of in-home assistance they would need? Currently, a lot of people without financial resources have to either live in an institution or go to prison or be homeless (which could result in going to prison).

equinn,

There's a difference between HFA and AS.

HFA: can't speak well (from not at all to various levels of impairment)
AS: can speak well