Is the pecking order a good thing for society?

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donkey
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12 Aug 2008, 10:33 am

there is a view supporting this type of approach to living an dit is called anarchy/anarchists, it was a popular movement in the 80's. amongst dissafected youth.

while it is an idealist approach to suggest that everyone should be equal, the fact is, some are more equal than others.
its not a matter of right anf wrong, it is how it is, in most societies, cultures and social and herd animals.
we can only construct our physical environment to suit us, some things we are more animal than we want to know or admit.


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corroonb
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12 Aug 2008, 10:37 am

donkey wrote:
there is a view supporting this type of approach to living an dit is called anarchy/anarchists, it was a popular movement in the 80's. amongst dissafected youth.

while it is an idealist approach to suggest that everyone should be equal, the fact is, some are more equal than others.
its not a matter of right anf wrong, it is how it is, in most societies, cultures and social and herd animals.
we can only construct our physical environment to suit us, some things we are more animal than we want to know or admit.


I'm a philosophical anarchist inspired by Noam Chomsky and Mikhail Bakunin.

Quote:
The major difference between collectivists and communists is over the question of "money" after a revolution. Anarcho-communists consider the abolition of money to be essential, while anarcho-collectivists consider the end of private ownership of the means of production to be the key. As Kropotkin noted, "[collectivist anarchism] express[es] a state of things in which all necessaries for production are owned in common by the labour groups and the free communes, while the ways of retribution [i.e. distribution] of labour, communist or otherwise, would be settled by each group for itself." Thus, while communism and collectivism both organise production in common via producers' associations, they differ in how the goods produced will be distributed. Communism is based on free consumption of all while collectivism is more likely to be based on the distribution of goods according to the labour contributed. However, most anarcho-collectivists think that, over time, as productivity increases and the sense of community becomes stronger, money will disappear.


An idea is only an idea unless people have the courage to implement it in their lives. I don't believe the current system is working for most people. It works for the wealthy few, not the largely poor masses.



donkey
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12 Aug 2008, 10:42 am

[quote="

I'm a philosophical anarchist inspired by Noam Chomsky and Mikhail Bakunin.

Quote:
The major difference between collectivists and communists is over the question of "money" after a revolution. Anarcho-communists consider the abolition of money to be essential, while anarcho-collectivists consider the end of private ownership of the means of production to be the key. As Kropotkin noted, "[collectivist anarchism] express[es] a state of things in which all necessaries for production are owned in common by the labour groups and the free communes, while the ways of retribution [i.e. distribution] of labour, communist or otherwise, would be settled by each group for itself." Thus, while communism and collectivism both organise production in common via producers' associations, they differ in how the goods produced will be distributed. Communism is based on free consumption of all while collectivism is more likely to be based on the distribution of goods according to the labour contributed. However, most anarcho-collectivists think that, over time, as productivity increases and the sense of community becomes stronger, money will disappear.


An idea is only an idea unless people have the courage to implement it in their lives. I don't believe the current system is working for most people. It works for the wealthy few, not the largely poor masses.[/quote]

it shows your a anarchist, but it is no good quoting passages from chomsky to me.
im a conformist and a pragmatist.
your talking hippy talk.
so what?
we just think different.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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12 Aug 2008, 10:55 am

The question I have is does anyone who is at the top of the pecking order ever question if it is a good thing? The ones who complain about it complain until they reach the top or the upper hierarchy then they stop complaining about it because they have reached a position of authority which is what they wanted all along. Isn't it true that all of us wish we were at the top of the pecking order?

If I were at the top I wouldn't do as much pecking and would probably lose my position because of failure to participate. This is an interesting area of study. What purpose does a pecking order serve? Is it to determine who has enough self confidence to succeed? Who has the thickest skin? Who is most capable at chewing out others? Another question...does the one in charge actually participate in the pecking order or is it just the underlings all vying for future positions and this is their way of expressing their anxiety about having to compete with so many other underlings?



Last edited by ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo on 12 Aug 2008, 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

corroonb
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12 Aug 2008, 10:56 am

donkey wrote:
[quote="

I'm a philosophical anarchist inspired by Noam Chomsky and Mikhail Bakunin.

Quote:
The major difference between collectivists and communists is over the question of "money" after a revolution. Anarcho-communists consider the abolition of money to be essential, while anarcho-collectivists consider the end of private ownership of the means of production to be the key. As Kropotkin noted, "[collectivist anarchism] express[es] a state of things in which all necessaries for production are owned in common by the labour groups and the free communes, while the ways of retribution [i.e. distribution] of labour, communist or otherwise, would be settled by each group for itself." Thus, while communism and collectivism both organise production in common via producers' associations, they differ in how the goods produced will be distributed. Communism is based on free consumption of all while collectivism is more likely to be based on the distribution of goods according to the labour contributed. However, most anarcho-collectivists think that, over time, as productivity increases and the sense of community becomes stronger, money will disappear.


An idea is only an idea unless people have the courage to implement it in their lives. I don't believe the current system is working for most people. It works for the wealthy few, not the largely poor masses.


it shows your a anarchist, but it is no good quoting passages from chomsky to me.
im a conformist and a pragmatist.
your talking hippy talk.
so what?
we just think different.[/quote]

I'm not a hippy. I live in the system but that doesn't mean I have to like it or keep quiet about my criticisms.



donkey
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12 Aug 2008, 11:03 am

ok no argument from me apologies if i offended.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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12 Aug 2008, 11:05 am

None of those extreme political ideologies ever work in the real world, fyi. Democracy is the best form of government.



corroonb
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12 Aug 2008, 11:06 am

donkey wrote:
ok no argument from me apologies if i offended.


No offence taken.



corroonb
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12 Aug 2008, 11:08 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
None of those extreme political ideologies ever work in the real world, fyi. Democracy is the best form of government.


O really?

Have wars lessened since "democracy" was introduced?

Hitler and Mussolini were democratically elected and look how that went.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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12 Aug 2008, 11:11 am

corroonb wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
None of those extreme political ideologies ever work in the real world, fyi. Democracy is the best form of government.


O really?

Have wars lessened since "democracy" was introduced?

Hitler and Mussolini were democratically elected and look how that went.


Those were socialist dictators. There was nothing democratic about them. Democracy is the best government. Unfortunately, politics itself can be evil because of dishonesty and corruption, but as far as ideologies go, democracy is the best because, ideally, everyone is represented in a democracy.



corroonb
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12 Aug 2008, 11:14 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
corroonb wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
None of those extreme political ideologies ever work in the real world, fyi. Democracy is the best form of government.


O really?

Have wars lessened since "democracy" was introduced?

Hitler and Mussolini were democratically elected and look how that went.


Those were socialist dictators. There was nothing democratic about them. Democracy is the best government. Unfortunately, politics itself can be evil because of dishonesty and corruption, but as far as ideologies go, democracy is the best because, ideally, everyone is represented in a democracy.


Both Hitler and Mussolini were elected by their people.

The problem is that our "democracy" isn't in fact democracy. Democracy is rule by the people for the people. But in most every democratic country the people don't make any decisions, they elect a candidate to make decisions for them as if they were children who can't hold an opinion. In Ancient Greek city states every citizen took part in the process of government. That was democracy.



Bradleigh
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12 Aug 2008, 11:16 am

Why can't there be a democratic comunism like government, one where we get to vote for our leaders, and everyone is looked after. I hate the mentality all for one, we should look after one another, full on progress is not always a good thing.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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12 Aug 2008, 11:18 am

They were elected after people were brainwashed into electing them. I don't think brainwashing is a part of the democratic process.

I just think democracy is the best choice but human nature being what it is, the democratic ideal gets corrupted.



corroonb
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12 Aug 2008, 11:21 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
They were elected after people were brainwashed into electing them. I don't think brainwashing is a part of the democratic process.

I just think democracy is the best choice but human nature being what it is, the democratic ideal gets corrupted.


"Brainwashing" is still common in democratic countries. Fox News is brainwashing as are all the TV commercials telling people who to vote for and what to think. Politicians are in the business of brainwashing and I personally don't trust any of them because they are in it for themselves not to help others.

This is all just my opinion. You are free to think whatever you like about democracy or the society in which you live.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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12 Aug 2008, 11:24 am

But in a democratic country there is enough dissent allowed to counterbalance the negative effects of the dishonest propoganda campaigning. The voices of dissent lend to a more balanced view.



corroonb
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12 Aug 2008, 11:27 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
But in a democratic country there is enough dissent allowed to counterbalance the negative effects of the dishonest propoganda campaigning. The voices of dissent lend to a more balanced view.


What if those who dissent are vilified and marginalised? Accused of being traitors or unpatriotic because they do not unconditionally support the actions of their government?

If the press is not free from political bias, then the voices of dissenters will not be heard. I don't believe the press in the US or most other countries tolerate dissent or criticism of the government. And if any outsider criticises the actions of the US government, they are said to be "anti-American".