The DSM-IV is continually being updated, changed !

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I shall post quickly - I read previous posts. Like NeantHumain stated, the DSM-IV is also used to 'diagnostic codes' meant just for insurance billing purposes, which contrives the true intent. And there are many revisions - why not just write a new edition?

Like Danielsmyname stated: There are Autistic core criteria, which is as it should be - our common denominator! That which ties us together diagnostically, regardless of level of functioning, variation, etc.

But, my contribution to what asplanet shared: Please know that in CURRENT Neuroscience (not medical, per se, but SCIENCE) - I'll not elaborate much further here, Autism Disorder, is now regarded as one core/denominator, BUT with several notable varieties.

By analogy: Think of cancer. Cancer has a core pathology as we all know (proliferating cells, Nucleic acid miscoding, etc). Anyway, there are MANY forms of cancer with different treatments, prognostics, and outcomes! Consider melanoma, breast cancer, leukemia, lung cancer, osteo sarcoma....ad infinitum. These are all cancer. But the manifestations are quite different! Now, neuroscience does recognize that autism has many forms as well and this should be taken into consideration. But the core diagnostic 'denominator' should never be disregarded! Kanner, Asperger, and Eisenberger are still the 'gold standard' and their contribution is invaluable, albeit dated.

I am technically HFA and AS is subtly different. For certain reasons, AS is often listed separately, but this is really semantics.

About whether 'disabled' or not - well, depends also on your locale. By this I mean that in the United States those with Autism (yes, even AS) are covered by ADA (= American's with Disabilites Act, 1990). Whether or not Aspie/Autie chooses to utilize their ADA right is a personal matter. So disability has not just diagnostic meaning, but legal meaning too.

In genral, AS, by convention, is considered a milder version of Autism; implying developmental steps are in normal place (ie: speech, even ToM, etc). Yes, variability here. I am high-functioning certainly, and cognitively gifted, but nevertheless Autistic! By any standard.

Our commonalities should never be forgotten.

In veterinary medicine, for instance, vets will say, about their needing to know so many animal needs (anatomy, physiology, treatment, etc), when asked "How can you possibly KNOW all those different animals and speciation?" Here's how: They know the commonalites. Only then can they apply to specific case.
Likewise, sort of.

Sigh....quickly I should add: Just like in botany, there are 'lumpers' and 'splitters.' No different than diagnosticians who specialize in autism. Should the related categories be merged? Or separate? Well, they exist - that's a given. As far as HOW - that's procedural and the continuum does matter. I suppose, in sum, that's why there's so many traits/characteristics. This is why the 'checklist' is not always reflective - parametric? Sliding scale? This matters statistically! For diagnostics.

For those who are self-diagnosed.....I am unsure. Some self Dx'ed clearly recognize MANY traits and therefore feel confident in their decision. This has merit and many then go on to get a formal Dx, citing their own hunch backed up with patterns of behavior. Some self Dx'ed are really off the mark though.....that can be problematic. Objectivity and familiarity with autism are key. Otherwise one is just guessing.

Since Autism is considered a spectrum disorder there is variation and leeway too. This can be confounding unless one happens to fall right into the given critieria. Those 'on the edge' including some Aspies or with ADD/ADHD - ? Also, JUST having some 'Aspie' traits (I know some NTs who do) does NOT give one AS!! This is an important distinction. For ex: I have 'some' traits of OCD, but I'm not OCD, by Dx. Close, but not.

Having some traits is not the same as having the disorder! This goes for any disorder or syndrome.

Thanks LabPet found that interesting and useful, plus love your video

But I agree to differ that people can have some autism traits but not be on the autism spectrum, I think you either are or you are not, its the way we are wired... I think the autism umbrella as I see it is much bigger and diverse than many others see it. I feel it should include all the neurological disorders ADHD, ADD, Dyselxia, Dyspraxia etc.. and that in fact about 20% of the population come under this umbrella with varying degrees.... I truly feel there are 2 sets of people on this planet, who are just differently minded and able.

Yes some of us adapt and fit in better than others, some less affected.. but we are as diverse and different within the autism umbrella/spectrum than those that are not on the spectrum. When I first discovered I was on the autism spectrum, I thought just had a few traits, its taken me over a year to really re-find and understand myself and now realize that in fact the way I am and view the world, affects every aspect of my life. Often those who say they are less affected, not really on the spectrum... is because they have not gone full circle, really discovered the differences, which takes a lot of time.

Of course this is just my point of view, I am not a professional and who am I to say... I can only go by my own life experiences, but I know deep down like many I will never quite fit into society as it is and I am fine with that, because my mask has been removed and I am happy to be in a minority group, my biggest problem is that bits invisible

My mom actually recently told me that a pediatrician dx'ed with me slight autism when I was 2 (this was in the late 70's), but my parents totally shunned it and it was never discussed since. I didn't know this until recently and even though I, in the end turned out okay, they were obviously in big time denial... I asked her why she didn't take the diagnosis seriously and her answer was "you were too aware of your surroundings to be autistic" I know there wasn't much really known about autism back then and not a lot of early intervention was available.. but maybe something else could have been done to get me off to a better start. If Temple Grandin did back in the 50's, then sure something would have been available in the late 70's. Can't change the past.. but many parents at first are in denial but eventually accept it.. mine never did until recently.

When caught in a lie the subject will redefine reality to fit the lie.

As LabPet and danielismyname state, Asperger and Kanner are the gold standard.

That seems clearcut. The problem comes with other conditions never mentioned by them, which are first called Autism like, than are merged in where there is no historic basis, then the Dx is altered to fit.

I am sure Asperger and Kanner saw it all, and excluded it. The group they defined is fairly broad, but linked by common traits. Other traits are now being first linked, then offered as a subsitute for Asperger's and Kanner's criteria.

Any group has a range, unrelated human talents. One should not divide cancer patients by musical ability.

Odd, strange, quirky, but does not meet the standard for mental illness, must be AS, undiscovered type.

This is not Science, it is social welfare thinking. Autism has become the junk drawer of classification.

The Autism/Neurotypical line is well defined, 99/1. The Neurotypical do have other conditions, not autistic, that are being Dxed as, Autism without autistic traits.

Autism is a clearcut differance in thought and pereption, it does have it's problems.

Classing all NT non-mental illness mental disabilities, defects, disorders, as autism, confuses everything.

While Autism once had a clear definition, Asperger's and Kanner's criteria, the word is now being used as they used Schizophrenia before Asperger and Kanner, a meaningless term never defined.

To include 20% of the population under the Autism umbrella destroys the meaning of the term.

It is a neurological differance expressed in 1% of the population and seen to some extent in 3%.

Yes, we do catch colds, that does not mean everyone with a cold is autistic.

ADHD, ADD, Dyselxia, Dyspraxia, etc.. do not add up to autism.

As mentioned, this is about insurance and funding, and NTs can get money if they are labeled autistic.

In the hands of psychobabbling pill pushers, they are going to do what makes them the most money. Asperger and Kanner were doing Science, saying this is not Schizophrenia, it is something else, not a mental illness. We are going backward now.

There are other conditions, that affect NTs, and a few autistics. They need to be defined, not lumped with autism. We must self define, it is the only way to keep from being the dumping ground for all forms of mental defects, call it autism and send them to the ret*d room.

I see it as we are loners, most mass murders are described as loners, hence we are mass murderers, and it is an autistic thing.

Asperger and Kanner are gold, the rest are very bad liers.

Nearly all of the people I know on the autism spectrum who are tested correctly seem to have at least one of these, what I am saying is that many people wired differently like us who have neurological disorders such as ADHD, Dyspraxia seem to have similar traits and may well also be under as I see it the autism umbrella... maybe affected less so not so notable, but people with these disorders I can relate to and often feel they seem like they are on the autism spectrum... something I feel should be considered, not just dismissed...e

This is why I think one day they may just throw ADHD under the spectrum as well.

That only shows the stupidity and the fakeness of the pseudoscientific "medical" branch which is called psychiatry or "biological" psychiatry or anything related to psychiatry.

The DSM-IV (1994) and DSM-IVR (2000) is much weaker and much more vague than the DSM III-R (1987) which means :
Easier for psychiatry industry to diagnose HFA/AS ==> more patients/more drug buyers ==> more money.

Maybe in the next version they would include things like:
"might has a toe abnormal taller than another toe" or " likes to post on forums a lot" or "he likes to play with wiwi a lot".


I am not a conspiracy theorists freak but the whole overdiagnosis of High functional autism is obviously a business fraud.

No doubts about Classic autism and LFA since their symptoms are quite obviously abnormal.

My problem is with the HFA/AS....I am not even sure anymore if it's related to the Classic autism/LFA.

The more I read about HFA/AS the more I find out that there's no single organic/physical/genetic abnormality determinant for HFA/AS the more I am convinced that AS/HFA is just a personality disorder developed since childhood for some reasons and it's totally abused by the psychiatric industry.

Yes, I know that the theories of refrigerator mothers and bad parenting were been dropped and they were been so wooped (an expression that I invented) by angry parents and aspies.....but since there's no real biological/medical determinant or formula to detect HF autism then I am afraid that the old theories are still valid. Funny that a year ago I mocked on a friend when she told me about the parenting theory but till now I couldn't disprove it ....not even with the real twins studies .

Some stats show that Divorce rate among parents of Autism = 80% , doesn't that indicate something? Besides, based on my personal observation on threads, so many members have serious emotional/communication/separation/divorce troubles with their parents.


Do you see this article? : http://psychrights.org/Research/Digest/ ... sFraud.htm

Good, just replace the word ADHD with AS and you'll get a very similar conclusion

Dr. Baughman says it better than I do.

We do have a new class, raised on Ritlin, with evidence of smaller brains for their treatment.

When half of a Kindergarten can be put on drugs, something is wrong with the system.

Taking one step back, foods made and promoted for small children, have a massive dose of sugar in every bite, they sponser cartoons, and by school, the proto consumer is ready for Ritilin. The odds in America they will go on to become obease, and diabetic.

The lack of informed consent is obvious, who would accept a treatment that would reduce their childs adult brain size by 7.5%?

I feel the same about people here talking about the drugs they take for Autism. There are none. Yes we do get colds, but there is nothing for Autism. It is like being born with six fingers and toes, would you take pills for it?

Does it bother you that the best advice is find a great obsession and rock out!

These are the same people who sold opium in China at gun point.

5,000,000 scripts, a few pills a day? 15,000,000 X 365, 5,000,000,000 pills a year and growing.

Being old, I lived long before this era. Humans are weird, always have been, and that is the way it is.

What you are producing is a Nation of Tweakers! Long term Crank does strange things.

These are the same folks that were chosen for water torture in Mental Hospitals up to 1974, lumped under Schizophrenia, which has vanished, like Stalin's Kulaks, who he killed by the millions, but never defined.

It is now illegal to deprive someone of their freedom without cause and due process, but pushing drugs is only unethical. They are Professionals, they have a right to eat, and drive new cars.

What have they done for us? They make up new and unproven conditions, and then try expermental pills to see what happens, they make money drugging ret*ds. What can they do now that electroshock, ice water baths, Thorizine, and unregulated behavior in locked wards has been outlawed.

Only the drug companies came to their assistance.

There is a reason they are excluded from the Medical Profession, they only treat things, not shadows, they prove a thing exists, devise a working treatment, and that is it.

These are Witch Doctors, treating evil spirits!

You are Weird! So is everyone else, a bunch of mad apes!

Life is good!

Being autistic is hard. But....we are the cure.

Thank you, asplanet (re: video clip)! In actuality, I agree with what you stated: One is either 'within the autistic spectrum' ( = 1) or 'not' ( = 0). In parenthesis is binary speak. Kind of like being pregnant....you either are. Or not. Binary.

One on WP (Lab Pet is sorry I do not know this one's name!) wrote recently something quite interesting, apologies if I misquote or out of context - Said that an older Jewish woman told her, just by looking, that she had a neurological 'difference.' This older Jewish woman was right on the mark. True, just a lucky guess or conjecture. The one who related this said she doesn't really LOOK any different than anyone else, but is an Aspie. The kind woman who spoke to her, somehow recognizing her 'difference' said that those in her culture of Judaism some can have a 'gift' of knowing (like a mind-reading skill) - cool! For me, I usually take no stock in this sort of thing, but I thought I would mention in this context. Some/many Aspies/Auties can attest that animals do KNOW of that 'autistic' difference in us - again, speculative. But if I can speak freely, I've had even strangers comment on my eyes, or 'look.'
One woman I met said her close friend is an epileptic. I'm not an epileptic but do have what is known as 'autistic petit mal seizures,' which mostly just means I stare a lot. This woman said I have 'epileptic eyes,' and said they were really pretty. I did have a great neurologist say there is a commonality in the eyes of autism, but it's not a steadfast rule, just a generality and he does look. Many on WP have written about 'Aspie eyes.'

Anyway, not to become too tangential....sigh. But there are signs and this is part of the diagnostic check-list. A good doctor relies upon his/her observation too, which is based upon experience.

Like asplanet wrote, and the Inventor wrote implicity, we have our commonalities! We overlap and diverge some, but that denominator exists. On WP I do feel connected.

There are good researchers. Hans Asperger and Leo Kanner, independently, saw this autistic denominator. And documented. Perhaps, as some have suggested, Jung may have been a precursor to the language of Asperger and Kanner; providing the framework/parameters. Unknown.

And there is no cure! To this day there is no one *right* treatment, but I do think if one is suffering and needs guidance (as many of us do), there are individualized treatments. Even Dr. Grandin has shown that with some treatment or care, in some cases gentle therapeutic drug (such as anti-anxiety, mild anti-seizure) some autistics can really blossom! This is good. For me, as an individual, I do need that mild anti-seizure medicine. But I am conservative in accepting any drug and wouldn't let anyone prescribe.

Ritalin: "The alternative to parenting?" Sometimes Ritalin is prescribed to kids for acting like......kids. Scary.

Inventor: I saw a vintage cartoon strip you would like, I think. It was a primitive classroom setting. All the kids seated were early homo sapiens but one - a little neanderthal! I think I felt an emotion when I saw him; he was writing on the chalkboard (as punishment):

"I will not act Primate in class."
"I will not act Primate in class."
"I will not act Primate in class."
......repeat 1/0

Substitute the word 'Autistic' for 'Primate.'

Our kind can be burned like witches too.....sigh. Lab Pet is free in the laboratory!