Can those living today live forever?

Post Reply New Topic

i remember reading an article a long time ago, but i can not find it on the net.

it was an article to do with what if we decided to see how long we could keep a human alive.

first, you look for a naturally extremely old person who is about 110 years old. like someone in osaka or wherever.

then you prep them for death.
when they die, you artificially replace whatever function it was that killed them.

so if it is their heart, then artificial circulation is implemented.

so the article said that the heart is the first to wear out.
under ideal conditions it can go for 125 years and no longer.
then the cognitive and also cortex processes disappear at around 130 and so artificial measures for evacuating the bowls and respiring are employed. they would be intravenously fed at that point.

at about 150 years the kidneys are totally spent (ideal conditions remember) and dialysis is employed.
then the liver goes after another few years and to fast foreward through all the failures, at 200 years the veins and arteries collapse and are no longer able to conduct blood.

so then the person will be sliced into wafers and bathed in an oxygenated and nutrified solution to keep the cells "alive".
the muscle cells are the last to die at about 235 years.
their osmotic capacity is comprimised about that time, and their ability to osmotically absorb nutrients is lost and they die.

this is all based upon studies of cell replication times.

some cells live longer than others.
brain cells live the longest and are never replicated. they last not long unfortunately.

but other cells die and replace themselves all the time.
they (almost) duplicate their genetic code and reproduce a copy of themselves as they die.

that copy is only like a photo copy.
if you get a beautifully sharp picture and photocopy it, and then photo copy that photo copy, and then photocopy that copy etc, you will wind up with a hideously grainy result after a number of copies.

that is like aging, and cancerous derivatives arise from that graininess.

also, those lesser copies will reproduce themselves to even lesser copies (generational degradation) when they dies.
that is aging.

i do not want to live forever.
it would be a damnation to be condemned to experience eternity.

i would like to live 1000 years though.
by then i would be tired so much i would be happy to go the eternal sleep.

i am sad that i will never see a time lapse video of how the hymalayas will develop.

i would like to be witness to stellar events like stars being born, but my life goes for only a "pop" in time, so i can not see much in that space.

whatever.

So.... when immortality is possible, will you become a supporter of euthanasia?

A necessary choice - projecting today's overall climate in medicine, that you must show pretty irreversible "death" before being allowed to die. When such things are no longer the case, you will have to resort to deliberate suicide, in order to attain your "death".

I suppose you can join one of these religious sects that refuse all medical assistance, but there seems to be a large proportion who renege on that, when it matters.


An interesting unfounded prediction.
Followed by an unexplained value judgement.


The same unfounded assertion. A repeat of the value judgement.

And another unfounded assumption, buried inside a non-question.


In answer to the question - yes, we already call it living. Had you not noticed that you are alive?

And that value judgement, yet again. Couched in the usual "If dog had meant us to fly, he would have given us wings" argument.


We know that, but you seem not to. The only reason death occurs is that an organism doesn't propagate its genes, after ceasing to breed. As the breeding period lengthens, the genetic heritage associate with longevity is preserved. Even with pure biology, an increased fertile life span begets a longer lifespan. Once there is no dependence on biology, there's no reason for life to cease.

If breeding is not your purpose, then I would guess your genetic makeup might be weeded out, in time. However, I doubt that there's that much time left, for DNA.

Without purpose? Just one of those subjective words. I have my purpose.

The last bit was just circular - a tautology, other than a vague hint of magic.



In your terms, I guess so. I wish to control my own destiny... or rather, I already do. In fact, let's go one better: I already am what you seem to describe as "God".

I have already met my maker - it's me.

Everything seems to have a beginning and an end; the time it takes to get from one to another can vary, but the end seems to be always there for something that begins.

Albeit, I'm viewing this from the perspective of a human who sees things begin and end all of the time (my thoughts are biased to this reality); Daniel MKII in the next universe could be postulating that perhaps there's such a thing as an ending?

slowmutant, why must you liken quantum concepts to your god? No, I would not be your "god". I would be the vague approximation in capabilities as the limited human mind can understand, but not before the universe. In essence, same reality, more dimensions. You're god does not exist for competition; else even the idea could not arise.

Ishmael quantum physics and quantum computing amazes me I wish you were my teacher :/

They are my favourite. I've been working on a ToE as a hobby... No expectations, but, damn -it's almost enough to make me feel a little geeky. If quantum mechanics wasn't so amazing.

if you could live forever...would you really want to?

As I said, the greater majority could would not have the mentality. Initially many may want to, through fear of death, but the ordinary mind is simply ill equipped for eons.

To this day information can be simply downloaded into your brain, but when your body becomes more of a machine, living forever isn't such a huge idea anymore. This is because existing will never get dull or painful. Machines evolve forward rapidly and in an exciting way unlike the human body. So there really is no downside to living eternally in a mechanical vessal.

I find this attitude rather conceited. Define "ordinary mind". I've yet to see one.

I think what he means is in general most people would not be able to handle it.

Lau, homo sapiens are a pack species, most lack certain qualities found in few. Fact, however unpalatable, is not conceited. You cannot honestly expect every man and his dog to keep track of years beyond their natural capacities, to see the world change forever? People evolved with death. Expecting everybody to have the mental stability and capacity to be immortal is as impractical as expecting everybody to have complete, in depth knowledge of all things technical and scientific. Truth is, most everybody you'd meet ok the streets would own a mobile phone without understanding how it works.

let's assume that immortality really is going to be possible to achieve in 20 years (was it 20? let's assume it was).

would that mean that it's going to be within everyone's reach? no.

is it going to be within reach of those who deserve it (intelligent, rational, mentally strong people with character)? no.

it's going to be within reach of those who can afford it.

and most of them are greedy, dull, half-brained Paris Hiltons of this world. plus their chihuauas.

As an extended lifespan relates to population growth, I do not believe we should fear over population. As humans evolve both physicly and mentaly we will enable our selves to live beyond this earth. As our population grows today, we begin to communicate faster and process information more efficiently. Over the course of time one could even float through space utilizing electromagnetic waves as a source of fuel if this is what one desired. With the growth of computation and simulatory systems, I believe anything the mind can imagine will soon be possible. And if this includes transdimensional interphase(time travel), already has.

Exactly. Human life doesn't have to be limited to Earth. The possibilities are endless.

Ah - but then questions of timing, culture, politics, society, etc. come into play.
Todays political hostility, poor economy, over population, lazy and ill funded space programs, growing reluctance in risky endeavours with the new generations, all of that.