What are your thoughts on "political correctness"?

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Okay. fair enough.





Well, in this case I have heard that a lot of people with this disability want the term changed so it should be changed that's why I didn't mention this example at first-though for other reasons I thought it was a good one. In general I think changing the connotations associated with a term is better than changing the term itself. He made the argument when the proposal to change the term in DSM IV had just come out so he was probably just reacting to the idea of changing the term -again-rather than to how people with the disability reacted to it. I don;t think the language facilitates the stigma-I think the stigma gets attached to the language because it represents the group of people.I think ridding the word of its stigma would be better.

Shall we agree to disagree on this point?

Last edited by daydreamer84 on 20 Mar 2013, 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

See, in this case I think there are mental and developmental disorders and disabilities and yes , part of them are cultural and only part inherit- so part are determined by the waty the majority functions but almost all things are that way. We're a nature/nurture interacting combo. I think ASD is a disorder not just a difference. I think calling it a difference minimizes the problems associated with it. Why should someone get benefits for just being different? We can't give disability living allowance to everyone who has trouble working because they don't fit into mainstream society due to a difference in personality. Everyone's different -by this logic someone could argue for benefits because they're too outspoken or too shy to fit into society and work. No, ASD is a neurological problem caused by genetics and perhaps prenatal insults as well so disability living allowance should cover people who can't work because of issues relating to a neurological disorder they were diagnosed with-any government would go broke if they had to cover anyone with a "difference"-hell, the whole population could make a good claim to this.

Also I don't think calling ASD a disorder is any more a value judgement than calling Multiple Sclerosis a disease or Muscular Dystrophy ect.

Oy *sign*, this argument is going to go on and on forever I can just picture it-I need to read for a few hours then sleep-but I'll be back tomorrow. lol

Last edited by daydreamer84 on 20 Mar 2013, 7:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

John (the writer)? Where do you get that?

Hoppin' John is a southern dish made with either field peas (my preference) or black eyed peas and rice as the main ingredients.

Hoecakes, Hoppin' John, and grits are all foods often associated, rightly or wrongly, with blacks in the south.[/quote]

It must be Northerners who associate those foods with blacks in the South because to Southerners they are just food that both races eat. The only food that I've always heard associated with blacks down here is chitlins, and to be honest, I have never met any white people who cook them and even black people will tell you that chitlins are usually always cooked by black families. It's not racist to say that either, because it's just a fact that's neither good nor bad. A lot of people associate pigs feet and pig ears with blacks, but that's a myth. I've met a lot of older whites who eat them too. Older people eat some really nasty stuff sometimes, my grandfather used to eat pig brains in scrambled eggs. Nasty.

I guess up North they might be associated with blacks because up there those foods are called "soul food" but most of what is called soul food in the North is just Southern food.

That's a good point. Many people in the North do associate many southern foods with blacks. The ones I listed are often thought of as soul food which is usually seen as food for blacks. But to many of us, it is food for everyone.

Years ago in Houston, I used to eat at a restaurant that served fairly average soul food and pretty inexpensive prices. In the several times I ate there, I was always the only white guy in the dining room. I never did understand why there wasn't a bigger mixture of customers than there was.

I live up north and what I've heard called "soul food" is Creole/Cajun cuisine.

Southern food is fried chicken and cornbread LOL

That's strange. Even though there are some African influences in Cajun and Creole food, I would never have imagined anyone referring to them as "soul food".

You must have a very strange notion of "lazy." Finding the links in the first place is more work than quoting bits and pieces.

I didn't quote anything because I wanted you to read them in their proper context. Apparently that did no good, so I somehow doubt that quoting the articles here would make it any harder for you to ignore the facts when they're placed right in front of you.



I have to assume you didn't actually read them very closely. They discuss the racist history behind Aunt Jemima, as well as how the more blatantly racist overtones have been mitigated over the years.



I strongly suggest researching the history behind it, because there's more to it than the fact that the founders created a portmanteau out of their names that just happened to match a racist slur in use at the time, and draws upon a children's book that made use of racist imagery of black people, and that the restaurants themselves used marketing around that particular children's book.



When I used google, I got this site: http://www.hoppinjohns.com/

I didn't find anything else that elucidated what you were asking.



... okay? So you were essentially just reaching? Trying to make my statement look absurd because you seem to object to the notion that racism should be a concern at all?

Verdandi, I do not agree with you that Aunt Jemima was meant to racist. I think they were catering to a different audience in a different time. I believe that this company did a demographic analysis to determine what their target audience loved and hated. They also notated their mannerisms and customs as well. This is what I believe advertisers do. Their ultimate goal was to sell their product to make money especially for their shareholders. I do not believe this was about race. I believe it was about economics.

Verdandi, how do you know what these two guys intent was? You don't know what was in their thoughts at the time do you? Maybe they didn't realize the name they use would be considered offensive. What if their only intent was just combining their names together to make the restaurant name?

I do mystery shopping to make money sometimes. For one of my shops, I used the name Dick Johnson. I used the name Dick because it is a endearing name for Richard and it reminds me of a movie I love called Dick Tracy. In addition, I believe detectives used to be called dicks as an endearing name as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Tracy_(1990_film)

I used the name Johnson because it is part of a name of a highway that excellent restaurants on it.

An editor sent out a general email to everyone on her list saying that names like that was unprofessional and offensive. I do not understand how it was unprofessional and offensive. What did I do wrong?

ok then. i am a bad person.




the caricatures were very friendly. i can not see a problem,

people who scratch their eyeballs out because they are disappointed with what they see deserve to see nothing.



well i liked the woman on our feature tiles. i did not think about the fact she was black.

i just liked her.

What facts? There was nothing in those links to support your case. What they did do was to make a point of what we already knew -- that some people see them as racist. That is not in question. It is not the perception of racism but actual racism.



I'm quite familiar with Sambo's. For years, that was my favorite all night restaurant. I used to sit at the counter and study math and drink coffee for hours on end.

What Sambo's restaurant had was some depictions of Sambo and a tiger. But I have news for you -- in the book and in the restaurant, Sambo is not African by any stretch of the imagination. He is from India.

Interestingly enough, the book was reissued with the name changed to something more Indian. There have apparently few, if any, allegations of racism about this version. Same story, different name.



If you are so intent on being offended wherever you look, then it is not far fetched to suspect that you might find it racist to suggest that there are particular foods that are associated with the southern black culture.

The thing to remember about racism is that it is about attitude and only about attitude. Anything else is mere superficialities.

No. Well, maybe on a university campus, but-- not on the street. My IRL is the gas station, the grocery store, the playground, the doctor's office, the therapist's office, the laundromat-- the street. People who want to **be seen as considerate** adjust their language accordingly. "Be seen as" isn't the same thing as actually being considerate.

Denigrating grannies-- I've seen that behavior a few times. Not often-- and usually by insecure college students who just want to reassure themselves of how intelligent and wonderful and enlightened they are. Pretty little girls from Alexandria who reallyy wanted to go to Dartmouth but could only get financial aid for WVU reassuring themselves that four years on the wrong side of the mountains isn't going to turn them into, you know, West Virginians. IE, by those who are so darn ignorant they are unaware of their ignorance, thinking ignorance can be identified by a lexicon or accent or address or lack of letters following one's name.

Which brings up a pet peeve-- the fact that there are certain demographics that it's actually PC to denigrate-- but that's another post.

Generally, I'm evoking basically decent if uneducated rednecks-- the people who have, by and large, been good to me (as well as the first Mexican guy to move to town, after a few nasty comments) in this shitpot of a world. It's neither here nor there, I guess, but innocent old Grannie is one of those people who can quickly turn African-American into an epithet. ("Honey, do you really think you should be seen with that, you know, African-American girl? You know people talk...").

What's more important, though, is to draw attention to the fact that, while maybe or not in the cases of race and sexual orientation, most cases of discrimination against developmentally disabled and/or mentally ill folks seems to be, in my experience anyway, perpetrated by highly educated and sophisticated people-- those who would refer to themselves as progressive-- who honestly think they're looking out for the best interestes of a less able, less valuable group of "persons," and that this makes them wonderful human beings.

Having denigration couched in politically correct terms is dangerous. It makes it palatable to bystanders, and thus more likely to continue.

I would much rather be called a ret*d by someone who sees me as decent and capable, even if only within the specific and limited realm of what they've seen me do or the task at hand, than be referred to as "a person with autism" by someone who sincerely believes that they are doing me a favor by depicting me as a sociopath-in-waiting or refusing to listen to what I have to say because I am developmentally delayed and their very highfalutin' textbook told them in no uncertain terms that I am simply not qualified to represent myself.

I can build understanding with that ignorant redneck to whom I am "Al's daughter, the ret*d that's pretty good with a wrench." The educated person who already knows everything about "persons with autism" has their ears stuck shut tight.

I'm not arguing that everyone who uses offensive speech is OK and everyone who uses PC language is bad. I'm arguing that you cannot safely and accurately judge someone's attitude or open-mindedness simply by the words they choose. Thinking that you can is in itself a form of bigotry and may be dangerous to your safety. Thinking that attitudes can be changed simply by temporarily masking them behind "neutral language" that won't stay neutral for long-- is just plain silly. It might raise the comfort level of certain demographics for a period of time, but it's a false sense of security. That's foolish. Dangerous. Impedimentary to progress.

Last edited by BuyerBeware on 20 Mar 2013, 10:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

I have a number of friends from New Orleans and the Caribbean influences are pretty heavy there. I've eaten quite a bit of jambalaya in my day. I guess it gets mixed in with the rest of what is considered soul food.

Also consider Senegalese food soul food, that real sweat-happy fire-breathing food.

PCness is gay and ret*d.

The only thing you did wrong was not know that those are both slang terms for penis. What your editor did wrong was to assume that you knew that and to then assume that you used that name on purpose as a joke. Assumption is the greater mistake, IMHO.

political correctness only make sense in news where those that do not have power to influence them have no say anyway.