Psychopathy, Asperger's: a 'serious' combination

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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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12 Mar 2011, 9:04 pm

Poke wrote:

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

For every serial killer there's at least one person with a spouse or fiancee who gets stressed out and simply flips and kills someone. These are people who were perfectly fine before they flipped, they had friends, had a good job or was a good student. People who knew them liked them. They tend to feel sympathy after they flip and feel sorry for them.
So you see, anyone can become violent. It's what people don't wish to acknowledge, so they push the idea away. Admitting this is the first step in being in tune with the many ways a mind can "go wrong."

If a person's reaction to getting "stressed out" is to kill someone, there's more wrong in their cranium than can be accounted for by immediate environment/stimulus alone.

The difference between them and a serial killer is these flip out killers do not get profiled while serial killers do, even though there have been examples of serial killers who meet this profile, well liked, popular, friendly, with fiances. Ted Bundy being a prime example.

jackbus01
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13 Mar 2011, 12:13 am

Poke wrote:

It's funny how the DSM works.

This is the type of arbitrary distinction I'm talking about. Say that the criteria for, say, BPD includes ruling out autism (I don't think this is actually the case, but there are many instances of this type of distinction throughout the DSM). Not only is this distinction arbitrary (who says an autistic person can't also have BPD?) it sets up a false dichotomy that gives the superficial impression that these diagnoses are in diametric opposition, despite the fact that, upon consideration of their general attributes, the kinship between them should be fairly obvious. This is not to say that all persons with BPD should be called "autistic"--only that they're at a sufficient distance from normality and towards autism.

That is why is so easy for people to be diagnosed with many different labels.

Poke wrote:

Also, I think there's a tendency (especially among members of sites like this) to define Asperger's in terms of what I've previously referred to as the "rose-colored archetype" of Asperger's: a logical introvert with poor social skills who wouldn't/couldn't hurt a fly, full of empathy that NT's can't understand, etc. I can understand why such an archetype might persist in a place like this, but anyone with real-life/clinical experience with the conditions in question knows that it's largely illusory.

Agree that the "rose-colored archetype" bias exists, but I would not say it is not illusory just an exaggerated bias.

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13 Mar 2011, 1:43 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

It is my theory that people will take these famous serial killers and make them into freakish monsters just to create distance between themselves and killers. They don't want to face the fact that anybody could become a killer. They want to say "it's people with autism," or "it's people with schizophrenia." Or, they want to say it's the loners. Or they want to profile and say they have certain traits or did certain things.
In pointing fingers at others, they feel comfortable. They think they could never do that, because only those people do it.

I agree with you. Most could at some point in history do things people now believe only a label can do. But, HEY! Bubbles are awesome!

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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13 Mar 2011, 1:56 am

extractor wrote:

But, HEY! Bubbles are awesome!

I like those machines that blow lots of bubbles all at once, in a stream.

Poke
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13 Mar 2011, 9:12 am

jackbus01 wrote:

Agree that the "rose-colored archetype" bias exists, but I would not say it is not illusory just an exaggerated bias.

Well, I didn't mean that it wasn't representative of anyone on the autism spectrum. Certainly some people fit it.

rpcarnell
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13 Mar 2011, 9:16 am

The Unabomber.

He is considered an aspie and a psychopath.

Ichinin
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13 Mar 2011, 11:48 am

I can say one thing, i've read countless of threads about Aspies who cries and feel depressed because they see people be treated badly or cry when they watch movies, so that the "Aspies have empathy issues" is a load of bullocks. There is no criteria comming close to having "empathy issues" for Aspergers.

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Poke
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13 Mar 2011, 12:03 pm

Ichinin wrote:

Explaining empathy to Aspies is like removing sand from a beach one grain at a time. At some point you just say "f**k it" and go home.

ruveyn
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13 Mar 2011, 12:25 pm

alexptrans wrote:

What do you guys think about this article?

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Psychopathy,+Asperger%27s%3A+a+%27serious%27+combination%3B+Dahmer+also+had...-a0127200931

Whether or not Dahmer was an Aspie, he was nutsy fagin.

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13 Mar 2011, 12:47 pm

Poke wrote:

Ichinin wrote:

Explaining empathy to Aspies is like removing sand from a beach one grain at a time. At some point you just say "f**k it" and go home.

I know - i have tried. There seems to be lots of confusion on these forums between Sympathy and Empathy.

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Aussie_74
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14 Dec 2011, 7:37 pm

There are 3 different types of empathy...cognitive empathy, affective empathy and empathic (or empathetic) concern.

Cognitive Empathy = Understanding the thoughts, motivations etc. of others.
Affective Empathy = Understanding the joy, grief, love etc. of others - this is what most people call empathy.
Empathic Concern = Sympathy - a shared application of affective empathy.

Asperger
Cognitive Empathy - Weak. Theory of Mind is based on deficits in cognitive empathy.
Affective Empathy - Varies, as with anyone. Unaffected in most individuals, but may be displayed differently due to Alexithymia.
Empathic Concern - Varies, as with anyone. Unaffected in most individuals, but may be displayed differently due to Alexithymia.

Psychopath
Cognitive Empathy - Strong. Without this heightened ability, they'd not be able to manipulate their victims.
Affective Empathy - Weak.
Empathic Concern - Weak.

Regardless of any [theorised] genetic predisposition, psychopaths are made not born...very different to an Asperger. So what we're saying is an Aspergian would need, at the very least, to greatly improve their cognitive empathy, while simultaneously being abused into losing affective empathy and sympathy - sounds like a bit of a stretch to me.

Finally, let's not lose sight of what Mental Illness can do to the human brain. A serious mental illness, such as one involving psychosis, will supersede an Asperger's diagnosis - it will shift the goal posts to where it becomes the new norm, the new state of being. Unfortunately many ignorant people believe, as with psychopathy, that there's a link between AS and psychosis, or even that AS is itself a form of mental illness...patently untrue. Aspergians are [generally] highly left-brain dominant, whereas Psychosis is over-stimulation of the right-brain. As with psychopathy, any link here is tenuous (and dubious) at best.

TheygoMew
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14 Dec 2011, 7:39 pm

Is the author himself a psychopath?

fraac
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14 Dec 2011, 8:03 pm

"psychopaths are made not born"

They have defective amygdalae.

Ganondox
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14 Dec 2011, 9:39 pm

fraac wrote:

"psychopaths are made not born"

They have defective amygdalae.

If I'm correct the difference between Pyschopathy and Sociopathy is that pyschopathy is stereotyped as having a neurological basis (born evil), while sociopathy is stereotyped as having a pyschological basis (turned evil).

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ediself
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15 Dec 2011, 3:34 am

Ganondox wrote:

fraac wrote:

"psychopaths are made not born"

They have defective amygdalae.

I think you mean "sociopaths" (ASPD) are born, not made, and malignant Narcissists (so close in terms of evilness) are made (turned evil).

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ediself
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15 Dec 2011, 3:38 am

By the way, I changed my mind.
I don't think an autistic person can be born both sociopathic and autistic, but I do think given the right amount of trauma, an autistic person can be turned into a malignant narcissist.
I think all it takes is trauma+intensive training by a personality disordered , and a lightbulb moment where the person decides they refuse to be a prey any longer.

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