Why do most NTs have little regard for professionals?

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Alla
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03 Jan 2011, 5:02 pm

thechadmaster wrote:

...remains of adam and eve have been found

Really? Where? And they have been kept secret all of this time?

thechadmaster
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03 Jan 2011, 5:03 pm

DenvrDave wrote:

thechadmaster wrote:

Noahs ark has been found...

No it hasn't.

thechadmaster wrote:

...remains of adam and eve have been found

No they haven't.

Noah's Ark: See Mt. Ararat in modern day Turkey

perhaps i was mistaken about adam and eve,

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Cornflake
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03 Jan 2011, 5:14 pm

thechadmaster wrote:

Noah's Ark: See Mt. Ararat in modern day Turkey

I just did (through a Google search, anyway) but found nothing which indicated that an actual Ark had been found. Lots of sound geological and climactic reasons why it wouldn't be found and plenty of conjecture about how various interpretations of writings seen to indicate that's where it may be - but still no Ark.

Quote:

perhaps i was mistaken about adam and eve,

Hmm. That's, um, a pity.

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thechadmaster
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03 Jan 2011, 5:17 pm

Cornflake wrote:

thechadmaster wrote:

Noah's Ark: See Mt. Ararat in modern day Turkey

Quote:

perhaps i was mistaken about adam and eve,

Hmm. That's, um, a pity.

Why must you mock and condescend me?

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Cornflake
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03 Jan 2011, 5:20 pm

thechadmaster wrote:

Cornflake wrote:

thechadmaster wrote:

Noah's Ark: See Mt. Ararat in modern day Turkey

Quote:

perhaps i was mistaken about adam and eve,

Hmm. That's, um, a pity.

Why must you mock and condescend me?

Oww, that's unfair. I'm only giving the evidence I've found, and I'm certainly not going to apologise for doing that.

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Janissy
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03 Jan 2011, 5:24 pm

thechadmaster wrote:

[perhaps i was mistaken about adam and eve,

If it's any consolation, anthropologists have decided to dub the woman from whom we are all descended "Eve". They have found a common thread of mitochondrial DNA that goes back about 200,000 years and is passed down and traceable mother to daughter.

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve

Prior to that, they called the oldest human female skeleton they found "Eve", although there is no reason to believe they were the same person.

Anthropologists will tend to call the oldest human ancestors of ours that they can find (or find DNA evidence of), "Adam" and "Eve" out of pure cultural convention. Although the first Homo Sapiens were preceded by other humanesque beings, and therefore you couldn't really have a "just two people alone in the garden" scenario (you couldn't really have that anyway, since the dividing line between species isn't razor sharp and all living groups have more than two) but it is reasonably close to finding "Adam" and "Eve", if you are willing to stretch the defintion a fair bit.

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03 Jan 2011, 5:33 pm

Janissy wrote:

reasonably close to finding "Adam" and "Eve", if you are willing to stretch the defintion a fair bit.

Yes. Quite a bit in fact, but 200,000 years would be too far a stretch for Creationists I suspect. Isn't the Earth only 5,000-odd years old?

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wavefreak58
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03 Jan 2011, 5:36 pm

Cornflake wrote:

Janissy wrote:

reasonably close to finding "Adam" and "Eve", if you are willing to stretch the defintion a fair bit.

Yes. Quite a bit in fact, but 200,000 years would be too far a stretch for Creationists I suspect. Isn't the Earth only 5,000-odd years old?

Only to young earth creationists. Some creationists accept a much older earth.

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03 Jan 2011, 5:55 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:

Cornflake wrote:

Janissy wrote:

reasonably close to finding "Adam" and "Eve", if you are willing to stretch the defintion a fair bit.

Yes. Quite a bit in fact, but 200,000 years would be too far a stretch for Creationists I suspect. Isn't the Earth only 5,000-odd years old?

Only to young earth creationists. Some creationists accept a much older earth.

Hmm. I've been told that the literal word of God as given in the Bible is infallible. Seems there's more than one word?

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pensieve
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03 Jan 2011, 6:28 pm

OK thechadmaster, answer me this.

The Hubble Ultra-Deep Field galaxy is 13 billion light years away. If the Bible were right then this wouldn't exist, yet we have photographic evidence of it. To take this photo normally would show a blank spot but by using image stacking that's over I think 15 days long we can see hundreds if not thousands of early galaxies.

Also, radioactive decay can tell us how old Earth really is.

When you really really look into the evidence of the Big Bang and Evolution you find the evidence.

Now you can have your faith but don't go spouting there is less evidence for Evolution.

Anyway, back on topic. Yeah it does bother me that people think they know more than professionals. Or even if you have a laymen interest in something and end up knowing a lot they won't believe you.

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03 Jan 2011, 6:50 pm

pensieve wrote:

Ok, Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." He built the universe to His specifications. Dont get me started on radio carbon dating, there is no way to make a scale for it. The person who invented carbon dating did not have conclusive evidence of how old the earth is, and since RCD does not work on "new" subjects, it becomes even harder to scale.

Also, basic scientific principle: matter can neither be created or destroyed, thus, RCD is flawed because everything on this earth (barring space matter) has been here since day one. Look at your computer for example: it may have been built in 2010, but everything that goes into it has been on this planet since day one. Your body: technically been here since day one. Carbon is carbon. radioactivity does not "decay" it just disperses, it cannot be destroyed.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7qhB6oqyjY[/youtube]
Video of my pastor teaching on evolution

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03 Jan 2011, 6:56 pm

pensieve wrote:

Anyway, back on topic.

Yay!

Quote:

Yeah it does bother me that people think they know more than professionals. Or even if you have a laymen interest in something and end up knowing a lot they won't believe you.

It's a often question of context.
I don't automatically bow to someone with a PhD just because they have one, because it will soon become apparent if they simply have a piece of paper or if they've actually learned their subject.
But I have worked with people who have the paper and are very badly lacking experience with their subject or its continued study. It's as if the paper says it all and is the end result - it's neither, and these were the ones who seemed to expect deference to their "proven" knowledge.
The very best ones were simply great fun to work with because we learned from each other.

kfisherx put it best, though. (11th post from the thread start)

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wblastyn
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03 Jan 2011, 6:59 pm

thechadmaster wrote:

Alla wrote:

Mind you, I dont want this thread to turn into a creationists-evolutionists debate as this is not its intended purpose.

EDIT: this is directed to wblyastn
with all due respect, you kinda started it with your earlier post.

fact is, man-made science tells us that life is older than 6000 years, but anything man-made is inherently flawed, it cannot be trusted.

The argument that the Bible is "man made" is a fallacy, man picked up the pencil, but God did the talking, consider all the old testament prophecy regarding the life of Jesus. If the Bible got it right 1000 years before Jesus walked the earth, im more likely to trust it, than any man made science.

I didn't "start" anything. I simply stated that people who don't know much about a subject (e.g. evolution) usually say things that are completely wrong when arguing against it. I didn't mean it to turn into a debate. It isn't really a debate anyway, at least not in the scientific community, the only people "debating" against evolution are usually creationists, who don't fully understand what they are arguing against. Scientists, because of their knowledge, generally accept evolution, the same way they accept the earth is round and the sky is blue.

As for NT prophecy.. the authors of the NT probably had access to the OT prophecies, which means they simply could have made the story of Jesus fit to make it look like he was the messiah. Also, in the NT it even says some of the things Jesus did, such as riding into Jerusalem on a donkey, were done to fulfill prophecy. IOW, assuming jesus was a real person, he could have read the OT prophecies and decided to ride on a donkey to make people think he was the messiah.

Humans are flawed, yes, but that is why the scientific method exists, to minimise the amount of flaws in our understanding of the universe. It does this by minimising bias, self-correction through peer review, etc. Science is much more reliable than anything written in the Bible... we don't even know who really wrote most of it, not to mention that hundreds of gospels were burned because they didn't fit the correct creed (how do you know they kept the right ones?).

wblastyn
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03 Jan 2011, 7:02 pm

thechadmaster wrote:

Video of my pastor teaching on evolution

Well that just sums up what I was saying - lay people talking about things they know nothing about.

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03 Jan 2011, 7:07 pm

thechadmaster wrote:

The person who invented carbon dating did not have conclusive evidence of how old the earth is, and since RCD does not work on "new" subjects, it becomes even harder to scale.

Oh, come on now. That's outrageously wrong on so many counts I don't know where to begin and if that's all you have then, well, it's pretty thin...
It wasn't "a person" who "invented" it. Actual age of the Earth WRT the operation of RCD is irrelevant. RCD doesn't work with "new" objects for obvious reasons. Ad nauseum.

Quote:

matter can neither be created or destroyed

Nor can it be returned without a receipt.

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pensieve
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03 Jan 2011, 7:47 pm

thechadmaster wrote:

Look at your computer for example: it may have been built in 2010, but everything that goes into it has been on this planet since day one.

So basically, 5 billion years ago?

I went to church for 11 years. I'm not going to watch a video by some quack with a guitar.

You can have your faith but respect others faith. You must get it through your head that not everybody wants to believe in the Bible.
That said I still believe in God but I bloody love science and being free to believe in aliens/parallel universes/ time travel. I'm not going to be restricted by the church anymore.

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