Extreme empathy rather than a lack of?
Aspiewordsmith
Veteran
Joined: 2 Nov 2008
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 572
Location: United Kingdom, England, Berkshire, Reading
I think all this lack of empathy stuff is crap anyway. The main reason why is that no neurotypical ever tries to empathise with someone on the autistic spectrum. Why should we empathise with those who seek to make sure that some harm comes to us. That being based on my personal experiences. I never grived when my father was killed because he was just a brutal child beater and a hypocrite. Last year someone who I have known since 1974 died, and since I began getting closer to her from 2003-2006 since meeting her for the first time since 1977 I developed feelings of love for her but when I heard the death of Wendy (who more than likely had Asperger syndrome) I did grieve and I now still have not got over it and now that a chance of a relationship with her has gone out of the window. I'll prbably never grieve for members of my family when their time comes due to their aspiphobia and the hell they put me through since 1974.
I would now not trust anyone with any issues I have as I would not be empathised with so in this case why should I try to with an NT . With people who can empathise and take the time to try to make an effort then I will and I also can get overwhelmed with empathy but I show no sympathy. All this lack of empathy stuff is rather offensive. ![]()
Thought of this example of feeling empathy toward an inanimate object: When I first went to college I lived in a house with a bunch of other people. My mom came to visit for awhile, and while she was there we went food shopping. One thing she got was a package of frozen peas. A few weeks after she left, I found the frozen peas in the freezer and had an intense feeling of empathy and love toward them. Or perhaps, more accurately, a feeling of empathy and love toward my mother (something I find very hard to feel directly, even though I love her) via the package of frozen peas.
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Fiat justitia, ruat caelum.
I think there was a thread somewhere here with a link to external site where most of the signs in the DSM-IV were rephrased so that they sounded differently, and, frankly, much more reasonable and understandable. I can't remember much but there was this:
DSM-IV: A3. a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people, (e.g., by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
It was rephrased to something like: 'Very early understanding that your efforts won't actually be appreciated and that your actions may be met with judgement or hostility.'
I think that may be the same with the 'lack of emotional reciprocity' definition.
My great grandmother died when I was 12 years old. I was sad and missed her, but did not cry. On the day of my high school graduation, at the age of 18, my grandmother gave me a card that contained a savings bond and was signed in my great grandmother's handwriting. It turns out, she had purchased a graduation card for me and signed it 6 years in advance of my graduation, knowing she didn't have long to live. As soon as I saw the signature, I started sobbing, but not from the sadness of missing her, but because I imagined how SHE must have felt purchasing and signing that card. The pain and tears I was experiencing were HERS, not my own.
This sort of thing happens to me often. I was recently upset with my boyfriend for some remarks he made around our friends that typically would not bother me if he made them in private. It took me a couple of days to realize that the discomfort I had felt wasn't my own, but was what I perceived my friend would feel because of the comment. I got angry with my boyfriend because I was reacting as if I were someone else.
Last night, I was out to dinner with my boyfriend and one of our close friends, when an acquaintance of my boyfriend's noticed us and came to take a seat at our table. While I think this acquaintance is a very nice person, I felt angry and irritated when he sat down...because I was feeling my friend's perceived reaction.
Today at my brother's birthday party, he opened one of his gifts, and I knew that it was a duplicate gift. I immediately felt completely embarrassed and annoyed, even though I wasn't the one who had purchased the duplicate. I was super anxious the rest of the time, through him opening the duplicate gift, and only felt better once everyone else seemed to be taking it in stride.
While movies make me cry all the time, it is never the so-called sad events that make me cry, it is the characters' negative reactions to the event that make me cry. i.e. a child is killed, but no one in the film cries, neither will I. If something lesser happens, but someone in the film does cry in response, I will cry. It was not the idea that The Terminator was being destroyed at the end of Judgement Day that made me cry, but Eddie Furlong's tearful reaction. Had he not cried, I would have been emotionally neutral to the event.
Also, when I watch my favorite movies with other people who have not seen them, I almost always react to the movie the way they do. "Halloween" is one of my favorites, and I had the opportunity to see it on the big screen a couple of years ago. This was a big occasion for me, but it turns out the audience was mostly teenagers who spent the movie laughing at inappropriate places and responding with boredom. By the end of the movie, I was annoyed with the audience, yes, but the most upsetting part was that I felt the same way about the movie while watching it that they did. I disliked one of my favorite movies, because the people around me disliked it! When I shared another movie that I loved with my boyfriend, I couldn't for the life of me figure out what I had liked about it the first time...I thought it was awful! Well, when the movie ended, my boyfriend revealed he had hated it. I watched it by myself a week later, and loved it just as much as the first time.
So, basically, I feel whatever the other people in the room are feeling, without them having to tell me how they are feeling!
Does anyone else here find that instead of a lack of empathy, you have an intense, almost super-intuitive sense of empathy?
I could have written this myself...!
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At age 24, 4 months and 10 days I was officially told: "Congratulations! You are an Aspie".
Now I write about it --> http://happilyclueless.me
I hadn't thought about this before I read your post. I've always felt fear and discomfort when a balloon is let go and floats up into the sky. I have a phobia of heights, and when I see the balloon floating up into the air, I feel as if it's me floating into the air, and I begin to panic. I get very anxious watching parades with the giant balloons, worried that one will float away.
However, from reading the description of your feelings for inanimate objects, it sounds like what you are experiencing is sympathy for the objects, not empathy. You said several times that you 'feel bad' for the item, instead of feeling that you had fallen off of the shelf yourself.
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Aspie Quiz: AS - 141/200, NT - 77/200 (Very likely an Aspie)
AQ: 34/50 (Aspie range)
EQ: 32 / SQ: 68 (Extreme Systemizing / AS or HFA)
Diagnosed with AS and Anxiety Disorder - NOS on 03/21/2012
People with autism do not lack empathy. In some ways they actually tend to have more empathy than the general population.
I know that not everyone with autism lacks empathy, but I've read several people on this board refer to themselves as lacking empathy, so I was bringing up an alternate possibility. I didn't realize there were so many similar threads already.
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Aspie Quiz: AS - 141/200, NT - 77/200 (Very likely an Aspie)
AQ: 34/50 (Aspie range)
EQ: 32 / SQ: 68 (Extreme Systemizing / AS or HFA)
Diagnosed with AS and Anxiety Disorder - NOS on 03/21/2012
I linked to this site the other day as an EXCELLENT distinction between the two. I've checked these definitions with several friends, and as a filmmaker, this is the understanding that I've always had of the two words (empathy with characters is required for a successful horror film, for instance, not sympathy).
Difference Between Empathy and Sympathy
Here are two perfect and easy to understand definitions from the site:
Empathy: The ability to co-experience and relate to the thoughts, emotions, or experience of another without them being communicated directly by the individual.
Sympathy: The ability to understand and to support the emotional situation or experience of another being with compassion and sensitivity.
The two are actually quite different, if you think about it. Empathy is almost a psychic experience; at the very least, intuition. When I'm in a room with other people, I take on the moods of those people. I can feel what they feel. That's why I don't remain angry for long after getting into a fight with someone, because as soon as the other person has distanced themselves from me, the feeling of anger dissipates and I feel happy, as if nothing happened.
Sympathy is not at all about feeling what another person is feeling, but understanding what another person is going through, and wanting to do something to help them or make the hurting stop for that person.
The way I see it, I think it's more than likely that Aspies have plenty of Empathy, but little to no Sympathy. That's the case with me, at least. If I'm the room with someone who feels sad, I will feel sad...but I don't know how to make that person feel better, and don't really care...I just want them to feel better so that I can stop feeling the same way.
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Aspie Quiz: AS - 141/200, NT - 77/200 (Very likely an Aspie)
AQ: 34/50 (Aspie range)
EQ: 32 / SQ: 68 (Extreme Systemizing / AS or HFA)
Diagnosed with AS and Anxiety Disorder - NOS on 03/21/2012
Last edited by fragileclover on 12 Feb 2012, 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I understood death at a very young age. When i was 5 my mother found me late at night totally destraught in bed i was crying my eyes out in a state panic repeating "i dont want to die, i dont want to die" because i relised what death ment and how final it was, gone for ever
I had a very similar experience growing up, all the way through my teens. I would lie awake at night and count down the years, days and hours that I had left to live, given a projected age. I'd first consider how long I had left to live if I were to live to 100, then 90, then 80, etc etc. When I'd come to the conclusion that any of these scenarios were awful, I'd start crying. Death terrifies me.
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Aspie Quiz: AS - 141/200, NT - 77/200 (Very likely an Aspie)
AQ: 34/50 (Aspie range)
EQ: 32 / SQ: 68 (Extreme Systemizing / AS or HFA)
Diagnosed with AS and Anxiety Disorder - NOS on 03/21/2012
I do have extreme empathy, actually.
I can sense really random things about people, sometimes guess what they do for a living within the first 30 seconds of meeting them for no real reason( no, they aren't wearing a uniform) and people have told me they've "never felt so connected to someone before". Random people, once a HS guidance counselor told me this.
But it's weird...I guess I have it on a very deep level, but at the same time, I won't be able to read some really obvious things about people, I won't pick up on things that other people do easily.
So it's like I've traded in whatever kind of empathy most people have for a different kind.
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AD/HD BAP.
HDTV...
Whatever.
That's exactly what I meant.
Um, if NTs had more social empathy then shy or odd people would be given more of a chance in social situations, instead of being left in the corner and being judged as unfriendly. I think extroverts are more selfish because if they had more empathy, people with lack of social skills would be given a better chance to succeed.
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Female
I have way too much of empathy and sympathy. I have this so bad. If I see someone suffering, I cry wishing that it was myself suffering instead of them. I would not mind if I suffer, but when other do, I get so upset for them. It is so bad that I could not be around others who are sick because I am afraid of seeing someone suffer. If I get told I am sick or dying, it would not bother me, but if I get told someone, friend family, or even someone I know suffers, I feel so bad that I wish it were me and not them.
I am such a sap, that I cry even during the happy times for both myself and others. I am so emotional it is not even funny.
Sometimes, I believe Aspies have too much empathy and sympathy. It can go in extremes for us.
Like some of us have too much eye contact or none. Just like some of us have little to no empathy and sympathy and others have way too much sympathy and empathy. It is one extreme to another.
