Undiagnosed aspie--RDOS aspie results attached

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I will agree with nemorosa that that question (unusual sexual preferences) did bother me, in that I didn't know what it was meaning at all. There are so many ways it could be taken and without any idea of what it was meaning, I didn't know how I should answer. I ended up saying yes, as a demisexual poly person, but didn't know whether in the direction of asexual would be unusual in this case, or whether being poly counted, or whether various kinks were being asked about, or what. I'd have really preferred some examples as to what is meant by unusual, because I don't know what counts as unusual.

I can however say, that there is correlation between neurodiversity and polyamory.

As for the traps question, in my experience I've not seen much in the way of correlation with that, but I'm in a particularly BAP heavy social group...

As for the disclaimer, I'd say something with the idea of "this is meant to show whether someone has traits associated with the autistic spectrum, but not the severity of the traits, and thus not whether they should be diagnosable."

Why can't you be more specific since you seem so sure of yourself? By "sexual deviations" do you mean paedophilia, bestiality, violent sex? It some cultures it may be be perfectly legal to have sex at 13 (Spain) whereas elsewhere this would be considered child abuse, so you see this really isn't as clear cut as you may think.

Anyway, the more general point is that there are some people out there who may consider various common place sexual acts to be unusual and therefore answer "yes" on your quiz. You see you really can't get inside other peoples minds and guess what they consider "unusual".

I would love to read more. Sending you an message now.

None of them probably. I once thought pedophilia might have been a Neanderthal left-over, but I tend to think this is not the case. There is a tendency for more mixed age relationships, but pedophilia presumes there is sexual contact, which I don't think is correlated with neurodiversity. Violent sex, definitely not.

Besides, there is a much more common sexual deviation that you didn't mention, and I know that people that have it score very high on "Do you have unusual sexual preferences?".



Possible, of course, but there is a considerable difference how NTs vs Aspies answers this question, and we should presume NTs would be at least as prone to think in this way.

BTW, I've ruled out HBT since those questions have been in Aspie Quiz, and had little to none correlation to neurodiversity. I could add those questions since HBT today are not seen as large stigmas.

I find it pretty hard to be more specific. This is partly due to the stigma, and partly because the manifestation is very different between genders.



Another advantage of the more general question is that it is not gender-biased (answers does not depend on gender to any great degree). If I was to make it more general, I'd probably need one or more questions for males and one or more questions for females.



I think you are right, and this is an Aspie social trait, related to "unusual sexual preferences". The problem with researching this trait is that Aspies have a much harder time getting one relationship, much less so multiple. But when I tested it, Aspies and NTs had similar scores, which does indicate this is true since we would expect NTs to score higher as they are more likely to get a relationship in the first place. The question also correlated to other Aspie social traits, which supports its relation to neurodiversity.
However, it couldn't be used in Aspie Quiz because it didn't correlate to Aspie score.

rdos, we don't seem to be making any progress. All you have given is circular reasoning, that we must take your word for it that your quiz is valid because your quiz says that it is so.

On two specific points which I feel represent where your quiz is weakest you fail to make any rationale for your reasoning, instead falling back to "they're indicators of neurodiversity" or "my quiz says so". Do you not have any confidence in what you think or are you embarrassed by it?

Questions such as "are you fascinated by traps" are devised by people with specific ideas in mind not randomly generated yet you refuse to acknowledge that this is so. Your quiz was probably the first time I think I'd ever seen a conjunction of "fascinated" and "traps" in the same sentence, it is so odd. That you cannot acknowledge that this too, is so far out there, is in itself quite startling. You could have asked in your quiz "do you like sucking lollipops naked on the roof of your car" and I still wouldn't have been more surprised.

This is rather like drowning kittens but I shall go on:

1. This is a hobby of yours. Your are not a professional.
2. No professional person or organisation publicly endorses your work.
3. You have tried to have your work accepted by the professionals but have been shot down. Twice.
4. You have a private theory about Neanderthal ancestry which you wish to promote or verify, though this isn't acknowledge on the quiz.
5. Another thread on WP indicates some frankly rather disturbing ideas about race, and by implication how some are inferior.
6. You make rather broad assumptions about how people think. Surprise surprise, your only justification for this thinking comes from your own quiz.
7. Given the nature of your online quiz you have no way to ensure that your subjects are what they say they are.

You know, I don't actually think all your questions are unreasonable but what I do have issue with is how so many people taking this test are being mislead, because what you are doing isn't open, honest or particularly scientific. That you have an agenda and are constantly rewriting and reformulating your questions gives me further cause for my doubts.

This is going in circles. We could go on forever with your unsubstanted attacks against Aspie Quiz, but I feel this leds nowhere. You obviosly have not read / understood the issues I have already explained. I'm not going to explain them again, but rather refer you to the answers you already have got, and urge you to read them until you understand them.

And your new list of attacks have no substance whatsoever. There are professionals that are interested in Aspie Quiz, there are research project planned / already done, with at least one of them already published. No peer-reviewer has yet presented evidence that Aspie Quiz has not been conducted in a scientific manner, or that the results and conclusions are not sound. And it is currently submitted to PLoS ONE. The big problem with publication has been the length of a paper needed to describe everything in sufficient detail requires up to 10,000 words, which few journals accept.

Thanks for the reading rdos, I've received the email.

Your problem is that you are unable to answer questions without referring back to your own flawed quiz.

But don't just take my word for it:



This from http://autisticcats.blogspot.com/2009/11/debunking-neanderthal-nonsense-part-ii.html

Which is part two of:

http://autisticcats.blogspot.com/2009/10/debunking-neanderthal-nonsense-part-i.html

Your problem is that you are unable to understand the arguments because you have already decided that Aspie Quiz and the Neanderthal theory are worthless. If you had a more objective and curiuos view on the issue, I would have offered you the paper that describe how Aspie Quiz developped. As it is now, I feel I cannot because you will spread things I've written there all other the web, and missinterpreting them in the process.

Rather than present a cogent argument which is based on data other than self reference you've decided to fall back on a poor debating stunt, namely "you wouldn't understand"

No, "you would spread non-published data, and possibly misinterpret it".

These type of quiz questions have been around for a while, with sound results. David Keirsey, Please Understand Me.

Most are watershed questions, where a solid majority of types goes one way or the other. Humans are not that complex. Four letters define most.

What does show up are people that the test does not work as expected.

People of another neurology. Where aspie is a small minority, they can be picked from the NT herd. When another set of questions is, Do you think like a neanderthal? there is some overlap.

Aspie Quiz is a further defining of a known group that gets strange results on the general tests.

Aspies have the Aspie Gene, and develop Aspieocious. That did not work.

The DSM defines them from observed by an outsider behavior. Iffy at best.

Aspie Quiz is inturnal, It is a lie detector that gets a mostly truthful answer to the question, "Are you now, or have you ever been, an aspie?"

"Do you have unusual sexual preferances?" It can have no meaning, other than your perception. Do you think that you having sex with the lights on, a dog watching, on the kitchen table, are unusual? What about in the garage while waxing the car? Well my dog and car club thinks you are a prude!

So it outed your Necrophilia, Sorry!

All questions are tested for watershed, 90+% go one way or the other, 10% or less object to the question, and go in Group 6 on Bench J. There, because they have been so perceptive, they get another test.

This starts long ago, Bayes Therom, 400 years ago. He could ask anyone three questions, and discover their level of intelligence, education, and what they should learn next.

To the question, "Do you have unusual mental preferences?" He falls in the same batch as rdos.

As to the eight billion races on this planet, they are all inferior to robots, Bender. They are also inferior to each other. A Saharawi can get you across the desert, but in the Upper Congo, you both need a local guide.

European intelligence has come at the cost of a lack of perception. They think food is made in the warehouse behind the grocery store. They have a facination with traps, thinking the world is out to get them, and they will outsmart the trap, and lay one of their own.

Half of the output of Europe is avoiding imaginary traps.

Sorting apes is just a hobby.

I'm not saying to split it up into multiple questions, I'm saying to change it to
"Do you have unusual sexual preferences (including but not limited to foo, bar, or baz)?"

Giving us /something/ to compare to, gives an idea of what you mean by unusual. Without a sense of what unusual means, it might include 'be non-heterosexual', or it might mean 'only the most stigmaed kinks', or anywhere in between - and even if it does mean the latter, people might in fact, still, not know whether this is normal.

An advantage of giving more than one here, would be that you could include both very stigmatized and very not stigmatized options in there. Rather than splitting the question out and needing to deal with the stigma of a question specifically about something that you refuse to mention, it could be part of a larger question, where the stigma would be lesser.

Also, poly people don't need to ever actually be in multiple relationships, if you're asking about that, rather than using the word poly, you're not getting accurate results (as you get more people in non-commited relationships, and miss all the people who identify as poly despite being in none or one relationship. When I say there is correlation here, I don't mean I've just observed correlation, I mean I observed correlation and then researched it and found a peer reviewed study that included a statistically significant result when it came to non-monogamy and autistic people. The assumptions you'd made of expecting NTs to get into relationships easier than aspies, shows that you weren't at all asking the correct questions on this topic.

Also, you say 'there is a much more common sexual deviation that you didn't mention'. If its common, how do you know that I'd think its unusual? I actually likely wouldn't, and this would likely be an issue for quite a few people on the spectrum.

We don't know what normal is or what different is. We don't know how to explain how we differ, because there are traits of ours that we assume everyone has. (note, we here does not mean everyone on the spectrum, I'm not silly enough to make that claim).

It is a mistake to assume that NTs are just as prone to think in that manner, because it has been shown that autistic people do struggle with not being aware where they're different.



nemorosa, the path that rdos has been discussing for the quiz actually does match with statistical models. Each individual question is near meaningless, but the entire pattern is meaningful because of all the statistics involved. I don't remember the name of the type of modeling (I'm not a statistics person), but this is a meaningful, scientifically accepted, style of modeling.

You'll note I said that I don't have a problem with many of the questions. I know how these questionnaires are usually designed and why. Whether the whole thing hangs together or has any meaningful patterns is something different.

My issue with the aspie quiz is nothing at all to do with the format.

That might be possible. OTOH, I've not changed any question in about 2 years time now, and the exact wordings of those part of Aspie Quiz has a statistical material of over 200,000, so I don't really want to change anything, apart from correcting spelling errors and similar, as the factor loadings and relevance estimates then would need recalculating.



Interesting. As I wrote before, I think this is correct, and I find it really interesting that somebody has published this as well.

If I don't remember it wrong, I think I asked "Have you been in love in more than one person at the same time?"

Link: http://www.rdos.net/eng/aspeval/#780



Yes. It would be possible to use any kind of questions in Aspie Quiz, as long as the selection model is used (highest correlation to score + lowest correlation to other questions), and all types of questions are tested. The exact questions are not important.

Last edited by rdos on 15 Feb 2012, 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.