Do you think that AS is part of autism?

Post Reply New Topic

One thing, is they often can't even agree on the difference between 'high' and 'low' functioning.

Furthermore, I've had some experience with people diagnosed Autistic, not AS, and it seems to that there's a lot of similarity.

What about someone who can only hum or make indecipherable hand gestures at one point in their life, can write essays at others, and at others alternates between the two, and sometimes even while being able to do the essay thing can't communicate basic everyday thoughts like pain or hunger? (i.e. someone like me)

Why I don't trust these dividing lines.

The other disorders are not mistaken for AS! In version 4 (neurodiversity version), there was a long line of other DSM "disorders" at the entry-page to the test that people had to complete. The results from this, and some additional conditions in later versions (schizophrenia and social phobia) prove that all are correlated to ASDs. The highest correlation is with social phobia (not unexpected, unless you believe social phobia is something very different from AS). The lowest correlation is with dyslexia (0.66), but it is still considerably correlated with Aspie-score. Note that the Tourette results are not reliable because of a tiny population (just 10 or so). So, in fact, people with all these "disorders" tend to score high on the quiz.
Specifically, look here: http://www.rdos.net/eng/aspeval/pcacorr.htm



They are low because of the large variation between people on the spectrum!



A correlation of 1, which is basically impossible in such large studies of humans traits, would mean a perfect match.

He's basing this on 130.000 year old Neanderthals, he change's the 1 to -1 by the .23 and so on to change the outcome - since 130.000 is an est figure, this test is based on a theory of (Hn loading) is the calculation for aspies of 940.000 age, (Hs loading) is normal modern humans of 150.000 & Euroasian diversity through interbreeding with Neanderthals 30,000 years ago is the g-load... g-axis is positively correlated with Aspie ability group and negatively correlated with Aspie disability group, all he is doing is changing the outcome to match that this show's that this theory is fact based... It therefore is likely that g-axis is related to g-factor in intelligence tests. using you to shove out his own research....

And by the way your site is put together badly and half your link's don't work....

So what happen's if the gentic say's not so for 30.000... to 50.000 or so...

Well, isn't it very frustrating when you can't communicate these things? I know if I was forbidden to talk or write for even as much as a few days I would be banging my head against the wall. In my case, while in some cases I do get frustrated (such as at my inability to get the interest of girls), it's not unbearable and the good and the bad at least cancel out. If you took away my capacity for communication of even basic thoughts, I would want treatment to end that!

"Treatment" doesn't tend to be the thing that ends that. At least not in my experience. Having difficulty with those things is frustrating, yeah, but it's not a disease.

Clearly outrageous claims, logitechdog. If you have the necesary expertise, you can get all the raw-data so you can verify my "manipulations" first hand. That is, if you can find them.

The different axises is not my invention. They come out when the *raw data* are fed into a *professional Principal Component Analysis* program. I do *nothing* to the data in this process. The first axis is positively loaded on Aspie-score, and is directly used to calculate Aspie-score. The second axis is used to calculate NT-score, and specifically is highly loaded on questions in the NT social group of the quiz. The third axis is positively loaded on Aspie-ability group and negatively loaded on Aspie-disability-group. None of these can be manipulations as they are raw-results outside of my control. I did name these axises Hn, Hs and g-axis because of their loadings. I also calculated ages based on the assumption that Hs axis is 150,000 years old (archeologic evidence & genetic evidence). I also gave the corresponding ages for Hn and g-axis by linear interpolation.

Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:20 am Post subject: Comments

i think you are reading too much into it. If neanderthals bred with us, then we'd be so interbred right now that nobody is anywhere near a pure neander. This article describes tendancies. It explains various tendancies for almost the entire population, and makes some correlations of neander's evolutionary logic to autism. This article doesnt prove anything. It is merely exploring ideas.

I think this person put it nicely rdos

Who said anything about anybody being a pure neander? Nobody could possibly be a pure neander after 30,000 years of admixture. If that is what you are reading from the Neanderthal-theory you need to reread it. Some of the neanderthal traits have 100% penetrance into Caucasians (depigmented skin, for instance), while other traits are completely lost or at very low prevalence. The article doesn't state that autistics are pure-bred neanders. It claims that the differences between autistics and NTs are due to neander-interbreeding. It is well-known that not all autistics have all the autistic traits possible. Additionally, the Aspie-score distributions aren't one peak at 200 and one at 0. They are bell-curves centered around ~125 and ~75. Two distinct bell-curves, and not one, which is important.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/modules.php? ... sc&start=0

Everyone read This.....

I think about how much your trying to defend yourself is a sign - and why would we have to check it, send it off to be evaluated with a scientist or you scared they will rip it apart...

And I am sure they rejected it coz you had no expertise in the area just book's...

Last edited by logitechdog on 23 Dec 2006, 5:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.

I'm not certain what the basis for this is, but a guess is that he refers to how the second and third axis is imported from PCA. The primary axis always have positive loadings on all questions, while the other axises have both positive and negative loadings. Due to the nature of factor analysis, loading can be both positive and negative, and sometimes switches signs when more data is fed into the PCA-program. Factor-analysis doesn't make any specific interpretation of its axises, nor the absolute sign of loadings. Therefore, the inversion of loadings is a perfectly acceptable thing to do, and necesary to obtain consistence between versions. This can easily be understood if you think about it. I can change the interpretation of 2:nd axis from neurotypical to non-neurotypical, and then the loadings must necesarily be inverse.

As I wrote before, anybody with the necesary expertise can verify my results. I even have all the source-code that is used to create the evaluation reports in a CVS-repository that anybody can study. The entire history of the evalutation is also there. In fact, everything that is part of the evaluation currently is generated with code from the actual data.

I now about this thread, and have commented on it myself. I'm not sure what you want to prove with it? Weren't you concerned about the accuracy of the Aspie-quiz evaluations? Do you have the necesary expertise to "check it out", or perhaps involve somebody that would want to? I've already had it sent to three different journals that didn't dare to put it into the peer-review process, officially because of "constaints of space". You could do everybody a favor by exposing all of the inaccuracies in it!

Wait a second!

1. Caucasions DO have pigment. It is just generally a different type and mostly adaptive.
2. Even THEN, a lot of red heads have a tendency to get freckles, rather that a full coloration, so there are variances.
3. Who says neandertals even had such pigment?
4. Who is to say that that came from neandertals
5. I'll get railed on for this, but a LOT of blacks look like they have some caucasion blood as well. Just look at the descriptions of race, and compare. It doesn't just mention skin color. I don't know WHEN it started, but you never know. There may be a little caucasion blood in most non african families, and even in several african ones. I say caucasion only because Caucasions are to only ones having those traits without others. Some blacks DO obviously have asian traits, etc... but most appear more caucasion. Also, many do admit it.

Still, who is really to say which species(neandertal or cromagnon) took off, etc... People look for traits, and assume the one with the closest similarities is it. I have even seen caucasions that appear to have faces like either of those two skulls. You never know. From what I have heard, it sounds like a person with the extreme AS mentality that was 100% viable would blow away the best NT. Unfortunately, that just won't happen with the current constraints. That has been given as a reason for mental retardation, and some coordination problems.

HEY, even intel had problems when they tried to make faster processors. A processor that runs too fast can act much like a person with severe retardation. They kept failing! Here's a question for you! When did intel produce the first processor that ran over 1Ghz????? I bet most of you are TOTALLY wrong! The answer is they NEVER DID! All the processors over about 40Mhz or so have all sorts of circuitry with wait states, buffering, slowed down clock speeds, etc... to try to come up with the right mix to get the best speed WITH THE CURRENT CONSTRAINTS! I guess AS is about at that point.

Steve

I think AS could conceivably be an outcropping of some cause other than autism, though they both share a lot of effects.

1. There is a study of the genetic background of red-hair done by Rosalind Harding. It dates the mutations to "Neanderthal times".

2. Depigmentation, freckles and red-hair are correlated.

3. I've had the question about hair-color and eye-color in three different version, and in all of them red-hair color and light-brown/hazel eye color is associated with high Aspie-score.



Quite irrelevant. I'm sure there are all kinds of admixture and clines between races, but this is just expected. The only thing I care about is that African-descent people have 1/6 the autism prevalence compared to Caucasians (in the US population).

Actually, brown eyes(and hazel if you mean effectively brown) are VERY common. Like the A blood type, it may be a meaningless correlation. I HAVE seen a number of pictures of AS people with green eyes though. Green eyes aren't so common.

ALSO, I HAVE known a number of redheads that definately weren't AS.

The oldest mummy I heard of was not neanderthal It DID happen to have red hair though, and was found in china of all places. He wasn't asian! He was definately caucasion. I BELIEVE he was supposed to be 12-14 thousand years old.

Steve