What are your thoughts on "political correctness"?

Post Reply New Topic

See I think a whole concept of something like microaggressions is nit picky and I think it detracts from serious problems with hatred in the world.

It's politically correct to have decorations for all holidays or none at all....to acknowledge all religions equally. This has actually become a rule in the Toronto District School broad. for school room decorations. There's a law mandating this.

Then we don't disagree.

And yes, that was some serious wiggling you did there.

No, it's not wiggling. It's my take on the subject. But I feel you've come to the conclusion that anyone who doesn't see it your way must just be oblivious or ignorant of their error. I'm saying I don't agree that it is an error, and I don't think you even want to consider the possibility.

Oh. We aren't using the same definition of the term political correctness, and I think this is causing confusion.

But it's my take on the subject, too. The only thing we disagree on is what "gay" means; the underlying argument remains intact. Why are you still arguing with me?

What I bolded is where I disagree with you and the OP.

I don't call it "making excuses" when I'm being honest and truthful and not intending to offend. And the whole idea that if a person feels offended by the use of a certain word or phrase means the user is automatically in the wrong offends me.

"You misunderstand what I'm saying, so you expect me to apologize to you because you don't get it?" That's what I'd be thinking if a person took undue offense.

And to say words aren't "particularly different" than physical actions makes me think you have no understanding of freedom of speech and the slippery slope you seem oblivious to.

No, the whole use of the term "gay" was due to the scenario you introduced.

What I originally said was:

Perhaps , as I said something like referring to things as gay meaning stupid or bad I definitely disagree with....I think that's just disrespectful. Someone getting offended by someone saying merry christmas instead of happy holidays or saying that there has to be decorations for all holidays or none at all I think is silly. SO I'm not sure if that means I am actually against political corectness or partially against it or for it but those are some of my thoughts on the subject.

Although on that note, let me elaborate on why I don't think "gay" is considerate to use to express distaste, either.

The essential question you have to ask is, "Why do we use the same term for 'stupid' as we do for 'homosexual'"?

You might say, "Many words have multiple and even conflicting definitions; this is no different."

I would say that this is not a strong argument for at least these two reasons:

1. One of the definitions refers to a class of people. Imagine if the world "Jew" also meant "child molester," or if Anglo-Saxon was synonymous with "disgusting pubic hair." And imagine that both definitions are constantly used in everyday exchange. It would be uncomfortable for those people.

2. You must honestly acknowledge how these definitions developed. No one just woke up one day and decided that "gay" should mean "stupid." No. The progression was most likely so:

gay -- > homosexual;
homosexual --> bad;
therefore, gay -- > bad.

In my response to your scenario, Person A addressed this concern. But you said I was "wiggling" out the argument.

I would argue Homosexual would be the actual definition referring to the class of people (as in Jew or Anglo-Saxon), and that "gay" has become the most prominent synonym for said class. And even if the origin of gay = bad came from people who felt homosexuals are bad, it does not mean that everyone using the term holds that view, even if it is part of the word's evolution. As gay used to mostly mean happy, should we conclude all homosexuals have happy, wonderful lives.

Interesting to note, with the use of Anglo-Saxon, there is the concept of a WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant). The term waspish or waspy derives from this term. However, not all true WASPs would fit the term as to what waspish has come to mean, and not all waspish people are necessarily exclusively White Anglo-Saxon Protestant.

Saying "I've been gypped," indeed came from ill will towards the Gypsy people, but most using the term today probably don't even consider that.

And because they don't consider that, it shows that regardless of the ill intents originally attributed to the word, its adoption into modern vernacular means that it has transcended its original meaning.

deleted

But "gay" hasn't yet transcended the meaning of "homosexual"; not even close. It is a very current term used predominantly to describe homosexuality, perhaps even moreso than the term "homosexual" itself. You cannot seriously suggest that people who use the term "gay" to describe undesirable characteristics are unaware of the term's derogatory origins in the same way that people who say "gypped" are ignorant of that term's history. That is a disingenuous argument at best.

First, I hope you don't feel that my disagreement with you equates to hostility. It doesn't on my end, but in case there's some confusion, my disagreement with you is nothing personal.

What I would say is that the "gay" example was introduced by you, so if that's what you'd like to focus on, I'll address it:

I'm 30 years old. I'm not gay, nor am I homophobic. Personally, I would not use the term "gay" to mean happy as that was before my time, nor would I use it to mean "bad or stupid" because that's sort of after my time.

It seems it's mostly "kids" or people 10+ years younger than me that use the term gay to mean bad or stupid. And no, I don't fault them for it. I think its evidence of the changing of language. I never said these people were unaware of the most common use of gay today (meaning homosexual). At the same time, when they use the term "gay" to mean bad or silly, I don't believe that crosses their mind. For them, the word has a separate meaning which they use.

Now, I think your argument is that since they don't stop and think about how gay came to mean bad, they're being insensitive. I would argue that since they don't even give thought to homosexuality when using the term gay to be something bad, their intent is not to cause offense, and you should question why you're offended by its usage.

Of course, many words are indeed generational. For a period of time, the word "swell" was often used to mean "well, good, a-ok." Today, it's archaic. Of course, Abe Lincoln wouldn't have know what it meant either. He'd think you were talking about a swollen infection. But for a generation or so of people, "swell" came into prominence, had it's meaning, and fell out of favor.

I think this new meaning for "gay," is comparable and probably a generational thing. And I feel regardless of how the term came to have this new meaning, it doesn't mean that those who use it are in the wrong if their intent is not to offend. Frankly, I don't think they even make the connection because it means so little to them...which demonstrates that their use is not to equate homosexuality with badness.

I disagree with your assumption that people, even "young" people, do not think of homosexuality when they use the term gay in any context. I don't think most people mean any malice by it; I think they just don't care. And in a way, that seems worse. I don't care when homophobics use the word in a derogatory way; I can easily block them out because I don't value their opinions. But when friends, family, coworkers, acquaintances and so on use "gay" to describe things that they think are stupid, bad, silly or whatever -- well then it hits a little closer to home.

It's not the mere utterance of the word itself that is hurtful; it is the social mechanics behind the utterance of the word. When I hear someone say, for example, "Ew, that's gay!", my thought process isn't, "Uh-oh! They said a naughty word! They're not supposed to say that! How non-PC!" It's more like, "Oh... she is the type of person who doesn't care that her words are hurtful to some people." It's that attitude of "I know it hurts your feelings, but I don't care" that gets me.

And when I try to explain this to people, half the time I get "You're just looking for ways to be offended" or "You're overreacting" or "Shut up". Most of the time it's not even worth trying to explain, because it just gets brushed off as "political correctness." That's sort of what this whole discussion is about.

(Also I just sort of realized that this has nothing to do with autism, so I would be okay with a mod moving this to "Random Discussion" or something.)

I don't treat anyone else any different than I expect to be treated.

I don't offend easily. It can be done, but it takes a lot. I can't imagine being offended if someone says "Happy Hanukkah" to me or something similar for other religions. If anything, I might take it as a complement that they think enough of me to say it.

What does offend me -- highly offensive, in fact -- is any attempt at censorship.