Honesty and why people hate it

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Good post. Building on top of what you said, a possible reason why NTs are not likely to be depressed as much as aspies could be their ego. While aspies may see reality for how dismal it is, NTs could be using their ego to bolster their perceived reality and thus their state of mind.

Does that make sense?

Organisms do not perceive reality, but simply create rough schemata based on sensory data that is incomplete. Our brains fill in the schemata for missing pieces of data. I do all I can to control the schema I create to make my life one I wish to live. The more I study neuroscience and psychiatry, the better I get at this.

I think a lot of the social exchanges are some kind of locally developed code termed mores. Hair style, dress, and other nonverbal communication are also social codes. If you don't exhibit a complete set of code for a specific group of people, you are not accepted. In high school, it is called a clique. Depression, on the other hand, is chronically giving oneself negative messages.

To be honest, I think that the affective differences between NT and AS are the reasons behind most of these points.

An autistic can only speak for an NT just as well as that NT could speak for the autistic.

People with AS have egos just like NTs do, as is evident by anecdotes posted on this forum.

Telling the truth is not different to being offensive. A fat woman knows she is fat, and does not need that pointed out to her by others. If she asked how she looked in her dress, you wouldn't say 'Oh god, your waist is bulging and your tits are flapping everywhere', but you'd consider the situation from the point of view that compared to how other clothes might look, how that dress looks on her. She can't change her body shape, only the clothes, hence why the clothes should be accounted for by the question, not the woman herself. It is all relative.

absolutely

There's no doubt AS people have egos. Just that it's likely they use them in different ways and in different circumstances to NTs.

Many people seem to go out of their way to lie, like invite people to future social occasions when they have no intention of following through. They also skip steps (not explain or spell things out) and avoid detail. I'm a rather literal person, and people can't stand it when I say it like it is.

Do you mean they say they will invite you but don't or do you mean they invite you to a social occasion that isn't actually taking place?

My question is, why would you (general you) want to tell someone they are fat?

They don't do it on purpose. It's their handicap. They don't even know they are to include that little detail or step because they think you will understand.

I had a situation online when I asked someone "So you were too lazy to use the bathroom?" after he told me the story about how he became a bed wetter. Then he sounded defensive in his response saying he wasn't lazy and explained why and said he thought I wouldn't have an issue with how he became a bedwetter and I apologized for how I came off and said I was just saying how it is. He accepted it and moved on after realizing I wasn't being rude.

Generally I would say for the same reason you might tell someone they're old or that they're white. Basically because it would be true within our commonly understood definitions.
Normally you shouldn't have to tell someone this though as it should be obvious.

Technically all of us have some percentage of fat, but the main point of why I think you're asking this is because of intent. It's quite normal for NTs to use statements like above with the intent of hurting someone's feelings, and it often works because NTs live in a reality where their imagined identities are primary.

As an example, an NT may know that they are significantly overweight by normal standards, so it is already a known, but if someone else mentions anything about this obvious fact, then that's somehow totally different and not allowed because they likely intended to hurt or offend, and anything that doesn't fuel the ego positively is a no-no.

In reality the other person cannot harm the overweight person directly with words. All of the harm and offense happens within imagination, where the NT psyche has the ability to make concept seem as real as a piano falling on them.

The difference in perception is one major reason that aspies often come across as rude or offensive to NTs. An aspie might not be going out of their way to serve ego based realities.
The rules of identity do not always naturally occur to an aspie.

I think the best way to proceed in that case is to simply ask the aspie to state their intent, - if they intended to hurt your feelings by a statement. They will likely tell you exactly why they made the statement.

I don't tell people they are old or white. It never occurs to me to say that. Just like it never occurs for me to tell someone they drive a porsche. I guess I am not state the obvious person.

Where would it end? You have five fingers on each hand. You have hair.

Where would it end?
The thresholds are set by the current conditionals of the hive software (memetics).
It changes over time.
At a different time in history it could be considered a complement for others to comment about how white or plump you look.

Because it's all in the imagination it can easily change, and for imaginary reasons.


I'll try to put a less personal but painfully obvious example out there of this kind of meme.

Imagine you travel to an alien planet and are invited to a get together with several aliens inside a white room. You look around and comment on the obvious "Wow, this room sure is white", and instantly silence falls over the room as all the aliens look at you in disgust.

This is the exact same principle that we're talking about here.

Yes it's imaginary, and yes it's a type of insanity to make imagination real.

I don't say what walls people have either lol. I also notice I barely give out a compliment. It doesn't occur for me to tell someone their cake was delicious or their pasta was good. I see others make those comments and then I make a comment about it.

I know a lot of NTs would would call you inconsiderate because it didn't occur to you to say those things. As far as they are concerned, you should have at least lied and said something nice.

The natural M.O. for the brain is to pick out and point out things that are wrong, not right. Things that are right do not require fixing and the required thought process to figure out how to fix.
I consider this to be a very "real" part of the brain function, as in it justifies the brain function in the first place.
If there were no issues that needed resolving, then why evolve a brain?

We surely didn't evolve a brain so that we could could repeat similar phrases about how great everything is around us.

1. How is it that you can claim this?

Dopamine is released by the human brain as a reward chemical. The fundamental basis of life is that it seeks pleasure and avoids pain, and that's really all that matters in terms of evolution. To constantly point out what's wrong, rather than to strive for what is already right (law of least action) is a trait only found in some human beings.

2. In terms of psychology, your ideas seem to result from embedding of your hatred of NTs.




1. NTs are not part of a hivemind. While considerations change over time, the purpose behind them remains the same.

2. It's not the same principle. You're referring to an inanimate object that is undeniably white, which is completely different from somebody's subjective opinion of another person. Even in the case of an undeniably fat person, why would it be fine to tell them that they're fat, knowing that it would upset them? You previously wrote 'where would it end', but that's really as if you're saying it's OK to harm anybody as you please, so long as it's 'imaginative' (using language etc).

3. NTs aren't insane. >.>



1. How is it that you can claim NTs live in a reality of imagined identities?

A great many autistic individuals are socially rejected.
Most rejection happens via 'imagination'.
Autistics also reject other autistics, as evident by anecdotes on this forum.

Why would a higher percentage of autistics be depressed, if it were only NTs that considered these 'imaginary' things?

Is it not true that all of this is your imagination?

2. The logic behind your NT 'ego fueling' doesn't work, unless the primary goal of humanity is to be unhappy.

3. If that were true, a person rejected for a job would 'in reality', not be rejected, as it were only words. None of that makes sense. Even if it did, there are threads on this very forum about people annoyed at the use of 'autistic' as an insult in modern society.

4. Alexithymia is one prime reason Aspies frequently come across as rude or inconsiderate. I'm not going to extrapolate on this as it'd take too much time to create a post.