Dear_one
Veteran
Joined: 2 Feb 2008
Age: 77
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,721
Location: Where the Great Plains meet the Northern Pines
31 Mar 2019, 12:48 pm
31 Mar 2019, 12:54 pm
goldfish21
Veteran
Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,612
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
31 Mar 2019, 1:06 pm
magz wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
I find it funny that people here still post things like "gastrointestinal problems contribute to higher discomfort and distress," instead of "gastrointestinal problems cause ASD symptoms."
Does any study show gastrointestinal treatment helps with social intuition?
Yes.
Most of the info comes from mice studies, but they exist.
Some of the findings are mentioned in this article that I posted yesterday:
viewtopic.php?t=374800
Then there's this episode of The Nature of Things called The Autism Enigma that features some on the spectrum who are treated with probiotics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53yzwWsBeAc
And this statistician father of an Autistic boy who's ASD symptoms fluctuate with various antibiotics:
http://nofone.org
And, much more closer to home for me.. there's the fact that I've been posting here for 6 years that the first nearly 30 years of my life = textbook Asperger's Syndrome (as per Tony Atwood's " The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome") & that treating my gut dysbiosis has made me more intuitively socially connected than ever these past 6 years. Almost No One who has met me in the last 6 years realizes I'm autistic. Ironically, I've been complimented as being "more socially intelligent," than one of my beach friends. I've partied with thousands of people, made more friends than I care to spend time with etc. This second life is pretty fantastic. Only ONE person picked me out as autistic and that's only because my symptoms were acting up a bit that low light Winter due to lack of vitamin D AND he recognized signs/symptoms because one of his brothers is autistic. It's possible that others who know the signs and symptoms might pick them out in me, but even medical students & neuroscientists I've chatted with recently were surprised to hear me tell my tale. A few party friends were shocked to hear it, too, as there simply aren't others on the spectrum attending warehouse dance parties with several hundred party people. Because what I do works to treat these symptoms.
And it's very possible that what I do may in fact be influencing levels of endogenous acetaldehyde in my digestive tract. I'm going to have to do some research about it to see.
_________________
No
for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.goldfish21
Veteran
Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,612
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
31 Mar 2019, 1:09 pm
Dear_one wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
I find it funny that people here still post things like "gastrointestinal problems contribute to higher discomfort and distress," instead of "gastrointestinal problems cause ASD symptoms." I've been very transparently telling y'all for 6+ years that these intestinal issues cause, or greatly exacerbate, textbook ASD symptoms & that treating them alleviates these symptoms significantly and allows me to live an extremely highly functioning very social second life.
*shrug* You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make 'im drink.
*shrug* You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make 'im drink.
Where do I start to hear more about your proposed treatment? I recently discovered a clear link between my success at sleeping and my success at socializing.
BTW, if I wanted to make easy money, I'd sell some harmless powder and claim that it was so super-concentrated it had to be taken with a LOT of water. The water, of course, is what most people need.
I've shared it transparently here for 6+ years, so, right here. Some have called me a liar, fraud, hoax, or snake oil salesman.. meanwhile, in reality, I have not asked for one red cent from anyone for anything as I've never offered anything for sale. I've simply shared what grocery store, drug store, and natural health food store items I've used to treat My ASD symptoms and how and suggested that others might try some or all of it for themselves by supporting their local shops along their journey to better health. If you've never read the bulk of what I've learned and done, feel free to pm me and I'll get back to ya.
_________________
No
for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.
31 Mar 2019, 1:14 pm
31 Mar 2019, 1:25 pm
31 Mar 2019, 1:32 pm
lostonearth35
Veteran
Joined: 5 Jan 2010
Age: 52
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,900
Location: On a planet where I don't belong.
31 Mar 2019, 1:40 pm
Yes. I get it. Everything we eat, drink, touch or even look at causes autism. We are so broken and we need to be fixed because we are not normal people. Autism is a horrible disease and I love hearing this all the time, every second of my wakeful existence. Thank you for telling us the latest brilliant discovery on what causes this horrific disease and have a nice day.
That was sarcasm. Duh.
goldfish21
Veteran
Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,612
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
31 Mar 2019, 2:19 pm
magz wrote:
Please, link actual study papers, I can't dig through whole portals, I don't have infinite time.
No one in the first 32 years of my life suspected I could be autistic. I'm a typical "female type Asperger's" with enormous masking abilities. Does it mean I wasn't autistic for the first 32 years of my life?
No one in the first 32 years of my life suspected I could be autistic. I'm a typical "female type Asperger's" with enormous masking abilities. Does it mean I wasn't autistic for the first 32 years of my life?
Click the links and read at your leisure. I am not your personal assistant.
_________________
No
for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.goldfish21
Veteran
Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,612
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
31 Mar 2019, 2:22 pm
Redneck Aspie wrote:
I stopped by here today thinking about joining, and went ahead and signed up so I could post on this thread.
I am aware of issues about gut microbes, but I do not see that as a cure-all. What I do see is my own family: Myself, my wife, our three adult kids, and ten grandchildren. Out of fifteen people in three generations, living in six households, with varying diets, most are on the spectrum somewhere. One of the grandchildren has already been diagnosed, and one is in process of evaluation. (Also, two of three spouses in the second generation are definitely in it with us.) In the third generation one is either NT or very mild AS, and the 2-year-old may or may not be.
I am inclined to the genetic explanation because it does run in families (according to Silberman in "Neurotribes" even Hans Asperger himself noticed some of the traits in both the boys he was studying and also in their mothers). I see it first-hand in my own family. And while the previous generations are passed on and cannot be formally diagnosed, I do see behaviors in them that fit the pattern also (including one who passed away a year ago).
I am aware of issues about gut microbes, but I do not see that as a cure-all. What I do see is my own family: Myself, my wife, our three adult kids, and ten grandchildren. Out of fifteen people in three generations, living in six households, with varying diets, most are on the spectrum somewhere. One of the grandchildren has already been diagnosed, and one is in process of evaluation. (Also, two of three spouses in the second generation are definitely in it with us.) In the third generation one is either NT or very mild AS, and the 2-year-old may or may not be.
I am inclined to the genetic explanation because it does run in families (according to Silberman in "Neurotribes" even Hans Asperger himself noticed some of the traits in both the boys he was studying and also in their mothers). I see it first-hand in my own family. And while the previous generations are passed on and cannot be formally diagnosed, I do see behaviors in them that fit the pattern also (including one who passed away a year ago).
Genes are inherited. So are gut bacteria. IMO, it’s both.
_________________
No
for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.
31 Mar 2019, 2:27 pm
goldfish21 wrote:
Edna3362 wrote:
I'd likely incline to think that digestive factors affects EF first and foremost -- and thus the behaviors, functioning, then it's consequences... Like how anxiety affects the same way, how it impedes functioning, influences thoughts and actions, and mimics/amplifies autism.
Every time I read 'causes of autism', things pops out of my mind like I'd want to know like how to set apart asocial autistics due to rejection and social failures VS autistics who really is asocial to begin with and without the basis of 'reaction' due to diet or health or circumstances VS socially driven autistics regardless of any circumstances. In which I know that would be complicated with begin with.
Like how ADHD/ADD rules out from the effects of sleep disorders. Like how being nonverbal came from anxiety, disinterest, learning disability, or lacking certain concept of need for speech instead of anatomical basis. Like how those with thyroid disorders is set apart from those who have different causes of sudden functioning decline. Like how those with bipolar disorders are set apart from those with untreated hormonal or unrelated psychological conditions, for worse, types of personality.
My real own question is how to discount those digestive/drug/poor whatever reaction 'induces' autism, from those that neither the gut nor hormones nor upbringing nor any reactional/consequentials (other than genetics and a normal, healthy birth without complications) are involved to induce said set of 'symptoms'? As it isn't the nor the only one (yet variably) 'cause'.
I'd go for treating the gut for efficiency of functioning and learning, but not sociality or concepts -- but the more efficient one could have, the more work arounds are accessible for said sociality and concepts. Thing is, this works to those who are affected -- the ranges of severity can induce autism-like symptoms. So what? While I accept it's one of possible reactional causes, what sets others that doesn't have the reactional factors apart?
This is an easily a chosen option, and yet some would also jump into conclusions that it's the cause of autism because autism is the 'reaction', or whatever worsens the curse.
Like how anxiety is easily mistaken as a part of, or worse, autism as anxiety's reaction kind of conclusion.
TLDR; likely an old news to me. And not satisfied for personal reasons because I've seen and read the same patterns all over. Both formal and informal.
Replace gut or it's specific thing with something else, then we have severe enough reactions out of circumstances and thus 'cause of autism'. Sorry. What if it's not? What if the factors and the circumstances are the same to others, or more severe even -- but reactions are different and even far from autistic-like? I'd likely wanna know those with same gut profile or have the same thing with them, yet didn't 'became' autistic -- what sets them apart?
Just as to why some people don't develop nearsightedness? Even if their habits the same, their diet's the same, their eye strains the same, family's history's the same, even if their processing's the same, and other factors' the same like gender or blood types.
While it's one of the many possible options to pursue efficiency by knowing the causes of deficiencies -- like getting rid of certain comorbidities or a specific symptoms that worsens functioning, it's not what I'm looking for.
Every time I read 'causes of autism', things pops out of my mind like I'd want to know like how to set apart asocial autistics due to rejection and social failures VS autistics who really is asocial to begin with and without the basis of 'reaction' due to diet or health or circumstances VS socially driven autistics regardless of any circumstances. In which I know that would be complicated with begin with.
Like how ADHD/ADD rules out from the effects of sleep disorders. Like how being nonverbal came from anxiety, disinterest, learning disability, or lacking certain concept of need for speech instead of anatomical basis. Like how those with thyroid disorders is set apart from those who have different causes of sudden functioning decline. Like how those with bipolar disorders are set apart from those with untreated hormonal or unrelated psychological conditions, for worse, types of personality.
My real own question is how to discount those digestive/drug/poor whatever reaction 'induces' autism, from those that neither the gut nor hormones nor upbringing nor any reactional/consequentials (other than genetics and a normal, healthy birth without complications) are involved to induce said set of 'symptoms'? As it isn't the nor the only one (yet variably) 'cause'.
I'd go for treating the gut for efficiency of functioning and learning, but not sociality or concepts -- but the more efficient one could have, the more work arounds are accessible for said sociality and concepts. Thing is, this works to those who are affected -- the ranges of severity can induce autism-like symptoms. So what? While I accept it's one of possible reactional causes, what sets others that doesn't have the reactional factors apart?
This is an easily a chosen option, and yet some would also jump into conclusions that it's the cause of autism because autism is the 'reaction', or whatever worsens the curse.
Like how anxiety is easily mistaken as a part of, or worse, autism as anxiety's reaction kind of conclusion.TLDR; likely an old news to me. And not satisfied for personal reasons because I've seen and read the same patterns all over. Both formal and informal.
Replace gut or it's specific thing with something else, then we have severe enough reactions out of circumstances and thus 'cause of autism'. Sorry. What if it's not? What if the factors and the circumstances are the same to others, or more severe even -- but reactions are different and even far from autistic-like? I'd likely wanna know those with same gut profile or have the same thing with them, yet didn't 'became' autistic -- what sets them apart?
Just as to why some people don't develop nearsightedness? Even if their habits the same, their diet's the same, their eye strains the same, family's history's the same, even if their processing's the same, and other factors' the same like gender or blood types.
While it's one of the many possible options to pursue efficiency by knowing the causes of deficiencies -- like getting rid of certain comorbidities or a specific symptoms that worsens functioning, it's not what I'm looking for.
Except studies have been done proving the link between the gut microbiota and autism:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5408485/
And where this study leaves off is pretty much where I picked up 6+ years ago treating my own ASD symptoms via treating the gut dysbiosis & chemical sensitivity/imbalance.
The facts & science all exist. It's just taking people here a very long time to accept it. They're waiting another decade, or two, or a generation for others to try things out under medical supervision and have it all documented in a report rather than doing for themselves sooner. Doesn't change that this is all very real and applies to many on the spectrum. Perhaps not all, but many.
The word endogenous and it's meaning... I like it. Probably a word I might be looking for at some things I'm thinking of.
Again -- not what I'm looking for. There are many of those who have GI issues and didn't end up autistic. Or heck I'd likely bet there are autistics who have GI issues yet didn't impede their functioning.
And again, I would definitely look for those with said same gut profiles and not ending up autistic, see what sets them apart -- that is what I would be looking for.
More like GI issues are reactions of autism not really the other way around, and autism reactions to GI issues is by 'getting worse'.
While food and gut do indeed influences many health related neurological stuff -- what about inclinations? GI issues doesn't give aptitude profiles, it doesn't explain certain concepts, it doesn't explain many learning disabilities, it doesn't even explain other common things alexithymia and prosopagnosia, and it doesn't explain other patterns of things related to autism itself.
GI issues does give and explain things like hormonal imbalances, sleep disturbances, other obvious stuff like constipation and diarrhea, then it's consequences that affects quality of life and functioning.
If autism were to be divided from those who are affected due to GI issues and from those who aren't -- even better. I'd like to know their profiles better.
Even if the majority happened to be affected by GI issues causing autism. It's like those with sleep disorders and ADHD -- same profiles, different cause. The former have ADHD as a reaction, the latter is neurological.
How about the others that aren't? That would prove that autism alone exists, that there is such thing as an autistic brain and an autistic mind, and isn't really caused by GI issues or whatever comorbids that happened to be common and worsens/mimics autism.
As I've been reading things just to find concepts and words of things, it's getting old for me to see patterns of concepts over and over.
And in my own case? It's not the gut I'm having trouble with -- it's my sleep. If I were to rule out GI issues, so be it as long as I'd get rid of nonrestorative sleep.
I found out what it was like to actually have restorative sleep -- its like lights are on. Everything is the same, except better. Even to the point of social intuition. But did that gave me social drive and desire? Nah. I'm still asocial, only more capable of socializing because of becoming more functioning.
It didn't mattered what I ate or drank then, or how sensitive my body reacts to things, or even which stage of feminine cycle I'm at -- the effects of restorative sleep can be a less than a day or weeks long. It's not my gut or from the gut, it's my head lacking of something important for functioning.
All because of EF suddenly starting to work for me, than having to drag it around like a heavy equipment I couldn't use because it doesn't have an energy for me to actually use it let alone help me. But hey, I did developed some 'muscles' from lugging said heavy equipment around.
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,637
Location: Long Island, New York
31 Mar 2019, 3:53 pm
31 Mar 2019, 5:10 pm
31 Mar 2019, 6:58 pm
31 Mar 2019, 7:01 pm
31 Mar 2019, 8:44 pm
| Similar Topics | |
|---|---|
| Having Autism |
18 minutes ago |
| Autism influencers on IG, X, TikTok, etc. |
15 Jul 2026, 3:36 am |
| Is there any new movies or tv shows about autism? |
Today, 12:28 pm |
