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shaggydaddy
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16 Nov 2007, 12:17 pm

In my high school 1 in 150 people was a cheer leader, do we want to cure them?

Many great artists starved to death or at least lived in squalor because they could not make it in the world. Do we want to cure the artist gene?


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KingdomOfRats
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16 Nov 2007, 12:43 pm

Aspies in the autistic community often assume the pro curists are really bothered about curing them,and campaign against them,but really it's the more profound effects of autism that create a poor quality of life that they want to remove-of course there are those who want the cure because they don't want to be seen with a less than perfect kid,which could be applied to all humans anyway as no one is perfect.
Because aspergers and kanners/classic are often seen as diseases,illnesses etc [especially in America],some people would rather not have any association with a "disease" whatsoever,no matter how able their kid might be.

am someone who believes the best comprimise between cure and no cure would be something that lessens severity of traits that affect the autie or aspie profoundly,it is not fair to assume everyone is at the same level as a high functioner so should be denied a chance to live without the major challenges and to develop more independance through lessening severity.

It should be about choice first of all,for those aspies and auties whom have the ability to speak [in any form of communication] for themselves,they should be the ones given the choice of whether they want to stay as they are-allow them to grow a bit first for them to develop an opinion on themselves,or have their traits lessened,it's like how parents often force their religeon on their children as babies when they are unable to act for themselves,only for them to hate it when they are older.
for those whom do not have that ability,it should be researched and reviewed by various different autism specialists,neutral people, family etc before being allowed,as whatever choice they make is going to have a reaction on their childs' future.

cannot see how an actual cure would work with ASDs,the parents of the LFA+MR children who are desperate for cures don't realise that they would still have comorbid things like MR which will still affect their functioning.
hopefully it will take so long for an actual cure to be invented that human rights and political correctness will be even more obsessive over people rights-so will fight the autistics' cause.


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16 Nov 2007, 1:53 pm

IMO, if research into the human genome ever results in anything like a "cure," it will be important to empower each person on the spectrum, as much as possible, to make their own decisions.


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militarybrat
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16 Nov 2007, 3:06 pm

camarmateo wrote "If I can keep my high IQ then yes cure me, I wanna be more sociable. "
I'd like to counter that better social skills and ability can be taught to AS/HFA without a cure. The IQ may naturally change with a cure because there are different types of IQ some stronger than other depending on the person and aspies tend to have much higher verbal IQ's than visual-spatial-motor or preformance IQ's.



militarybrat
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16 Nov 2007, 3:07 pm

PS the cure thing seems a bit too much like eugenics.



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16 Nov 2007, 6:38 pm

militarybrat wrote:
PS the cure thing seems a bit too much like eugenics.


You've took the words right out of my mouth. :)


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nominalist
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16 Nov 2007, 7:02 pm

militarybrat wrote:
PS the cure thing seems a bit too much like eugenics.


It would, IMO, only be eugenics if it is forced on people, or if they are manipulated to accept it.


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Zwerfbeertje
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16 Nov 2007, 7:21 pm

I don't want to be what other people want me to be.



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17 Nov 2007, 2:04 am

Well that certainly got a response.... but few seem to be answering the original post.

No. I don't want a cure for me, for my wife, for either of my sons. We all have Asperger's. Yes it's diagnosed. But the why... :?

I'm 47, and if you'd asked me if I wanted to be "normal" at age 20 the answer would have been HELL yes. I didn't know I had Asperger's. I knew that I was smart. I knew that I couldn't seem to fit in with the other students at college. I knew that I had never enjoyed myself at a party (a record that still holds, by the way). I knew that I was miserable, and lonely, and I knew I was different than others, and I didn't know WHY. If I had only known why, I really think it would have been better. By the time I was 40 I was angry all the time. I never seemed to get ahead in a job, and I've had many different kinds of work. I was GOOD at my job, one of the best in my region. I never seemed to be recognized. Then my youngest son was diagnosed with Asperger's and I spent a very informative few days on the Internet. Then the library. Then the bookstore.

And I started to change. Once I understood what I am... WHO I am, I started to recognize my triggers. I hate crowds, and I hate lots of noise and bright lights around me. I realized that as I was walking through the mall at Christmastime, and I realized I felt so FURIOUS. I was angry, I was tense, every muscle was clenched. I was walking up on the balls of my feet, the weight carried forward and I was balancing as I went. If that sound familiar to someone, I'm betting they've had martial art instruction. I was poised to kick somebody's head of if they came at me. And I didn't realize it until that moment. As soon as I did, it drained away. I realized my fight or flight response had been triggered. And I also realized that happened a LOT. It rarely happens now.

Since then, and since I've learned, not to "copy" the NT's behavior, but to limit my interactions to what I'm comfortable with, or a "strictly" professional matter, and to use humor the rest of the time, my 'standing' at work has increased. Incredibly. I went from an hourly worker, to salary, to Assistant Vice President to Department Manager in less than 5 years. I am making more than twice what I made 3 years ago. At the same place I've worked for 15 years. I even like some people, but it's funny, the only ones I'm truly close to are "on the spectrum". There are a couple of NT's I care quite a bit about who feel the same way, but it's limited to friendly at work. I only socialize (when I do at all) with those I really consider my peers, fellow Aspie's. I don't hate NT's. I despise a couple, because they're despicable. I despise a few Aspie's for the same reason. I don't even hate NT's as a class, though we joke about them. Maybe I don't understand what another poster was saying about NT hate.

I'm glad I'm who and what I am. I do think my intelligence is tied to it. There does seem to be structural differences between ASD and NT brains. We seem to have a higher percentage of white matter to gray matter in our brains as compared to an NT. White matter interconnects the brain structures, and facilitates communication. I think that's why we do tend to be "smarter". To think faster, concentrate better and to be more creative.

So I guess I'm saying to the poster, I've been there, I've done that and I've got the scars. It sucked to get to here, it truly did, but I only made it because of my wife, my kids and my friends. I have to say, if you're miserable, try finding some fellow Aspie's to get to know. I certainly don't like some I've met, and some who've met me returned the dislike in spades.... We're different than "NT's". We can still interbreed, so at BEST we're on the verge of becoming our own sub-species. I would also suggest not trying to socialize with NT's. Not if you can avoid it. What activities draw you to them? I know a lot of us seem to really like science fiction. Try a convention. Talk about a homecoming for an Aspie. I sometimes think the science fiction or fantasy writer who'e not an Aspie, or elsewhere on the spectrum is the EXCEPTION. I had two engagements to NT women. Painful... VERY painful, for both of us. Love doesn't conquer all, love has to bow to necessity. In both cases, there was plenty of love on both sides. We still made each other miserable in the long run. I'm not even sure an Aspie can make a successful marriage with an NT. Every Aspie I know personally has had NT relationships die on them, and has only found stability with another Aspie.

Seriously, you sounded miserable. If you're an Aspie, find a community in your area and join it. A support group, something. Find an Aspie of the opposite sex (or the same I guess if that's your preference) and explore the possibilities. Learn your triggers, and how to recognize them. Learn to move yourself in an NT world, while not losing yourself in the meantime.

And good luck.



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17 Nov 2007, 2:48 am

thewllr wrote:
If I do have aspergers I would love to never be cured, I love being obsessed and I dont want a family.


what does not wanting a family have to do with AS? many people with AS want and have a family.



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17 Nov 2007, 3:51 am

i do not like life being a struggle all the time.
but i also do not like the plastic and fake way i feel when i "behave".
choices. lesser evils. blah blah.
it is an empty triumph to win the social game.

if i was happy being fake then i would not be ME but someone else or a robot.

so CURE, is just a suicide but with a warm body left over.

i do not want to die... so i will stay sick as well as i can.


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17 Nov 2007, 3:52 am

i_Am_andaJoy wrote:
i do not like life being a struggle all the time.
but i also do not like the plastic and fake way i feel when i "behave".
choices. lesser evils. blah blah.
it is an empty triumph to win the social game.

if i was happy being fake then i would not be ME but someone else or a robot.

so CURE, is just a suicide but with a warm body left over.

i do not want to die... so i will stay sick as well as i can.


Aspergers is not a sickness.



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17 Nov 2007, 3:57 am

ShadesOfMe wrote:
Aspergers is not a sickness.


It actually is, that's if we're being pedantic with language and all (which so happens to be a symptom of AS/AD).



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17 Nov 2007, 4:01 am

It's not. it's a neurological syndrome.



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17 Nov 2007, 4:02 am

Danielismyname wrote:
ShadesOfMe wrote:
Aspergers is not a sickness.


It actually is, that's if we're being pedantic with language and all (which so happens to be a symptom of AS/AD).


which i am.

but shades, you can switch my sentence to "i will stay well as sick as i can" inside your own head if you choose not to believe in definitions. :)

...i will stay... well, as sick as i can...


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17 Nov 2007, 4:07 am

What do you think a neurological syndrome is?

Look up "sickness", "illness", "syndrome" and "disorder" in your local dictionary (medical dictionary too), you'll find the answer.