Was Ted Bundy Actually Autistic?

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I have to agree with most people on this, Ted Bundy was probably not autistic.
And I also agree that abnormal psychology is extremely interesting.
But I hate it when people act solely on emotion.
Although you would have to act on emotion to commit a murder, because there are so very few benefits from it.

I think Ted Bundy had narcissistic personality disorder. AS and narcissism are often confused by inexperienced diagnosticians, but there are definitely distinctions:

"The narcissist switches between social agility and social impairment voluntarily. His social dysfunctioning is the outcome of conscious haughtiness and the reluctance to invest scarce mental energy in cultivating relationships with inferior and unworthy others. When confronted with potential Sources of Narcissistic Supply, however, the narcissist easily regains his social skills, his charm, and his gregariousness.

Many narcissists reach the highest rungs of their community, church, firm, or voluntary organization. Most of the time, they function flawlessly - though the inevitable blowups and the grating extortion of Narcissistic Supply usually put an end to the narcissist's career and social liaisons.

The Asperger's patient often wants to be accepted socially, to have friends, to marry, to be sexually active, and to sire offspring. He just doesn't have a clue how to go about it. His affect is limited. His initiative - for instance, to share his experiences with nearest and dearest or to engage in foreplay - is thwarted. His ability to divulge his emotions stilted. He is incapable or reciprocating and is largely unaware of the wishes, needs, and feelings of his interlocutors or counterparties.

Inevitably, Asperger's patients are perceived by others to be cold, eccentric, insensitive, indifferent, repulsive, exploitative or emotionally-absent. To avoid the pain of rejection, they confine themselves to solitary activities - but, unlike the schizoid, not by choice. They limit their world to a single topic, hobby, or person and dive in with the greatest, all-consuming intensity, excluding all other matters and everyone else. It is a form of hurt-control and pain regulation.

Thus, while the narcissist avoids pain by excluding, devaluing, and discarding others - the Asperger's patient achieves the same result by withdrawing and by passionately incorporating in his universe only one or two people and one or two subjects of interest. Both narcissists and Asperger's patients are prone to react with depression to perceived slights and injuries - but Asperger's patients are far more at risk of self-harm and suicide."

I agree, I can't even believe I am reading this here. I realize it's an old thread someone bumped but I thought people had more knowledge of what sociopathy is. Ted Bundy blended in everywhere he went, that's why he was undetected for so long. The woman that wrote a book about him had even met him, he gave off no red flags to anyone (I can't remember her name at the moment, she also wrote 'Green River Running Red' about Gary Ridgeway...who was dyslexic and had been sexually abused by his mother). This is like the polar opposite of AS, people who can't blend in to save their lives and are mostly harmless yet everyone is looking out for the 'loner' to be serial killer, til they wind up alone with that charming guy with the good hair and great smile and end up dead.

I had to watch my dad abuse my mom and try to keep my sisters from seeing it, I think I'm awesome as hell in many different ways, and I fully intended to kill my dad before his suicide. I planned out how I would do it, and even put thought into prolonging it due to the raw hatred I felt towards him.

That said, I would never dream of injuring someone except in self defense, or out of my very literal eye for an eye sense of justice.

What people said about the similarities between the diagnosis for autism and Bundy is outweighed by the differences between those on the spectrum, NT's, and the behavior of a serial killer.

I feel emotions, I just don't know how to express them well, or read the emotions of others, I'm not a psychopath, I can exercise judgment, even in the face of situations like my oldest sister (who has the same chemically imbalanced mental state my father did, she is what I call his final joke at my expense, because I will not strike a woman) physically assaulting me, or psychologically attacking my mother.

Though I did in no uncertain terms tell her she would NOT do that to our mother again...

I've noticed that too, and it doesn't just apply to homicidal tendencies.

People who stand out as ostracized are usually harmless. They're happy to have someone to talk to, and they're usually unwilling to jeopardize that. Their own experiences just make them more compassionate and empathetic to the pain of others.

Ted Bundy was a full-blown criminal psychopath which merits a dual diagnosis of NPD and ASPD.

The word you're looking for is narcissistic, Bundy in his confessions displayed his narcissism by talking about his murders in a casual tone which led the psychologists to label him quite correctly as "utterly narcissistic".



Quite correct, as did Adolf Hitler, Eric Harris, Bernard Madoff and Ponzi. You'll find psychopathic traits among high ranking politicians and corporate executives as well as bullies and machaevellian players.



All psychopaths (criminal and social) are diagnosed with NPD, it comes with the territory.



When it comes to psychopathy, pathological narcissism and the nature of evil most people are utterly clueless, unless their a psychologist/pyschiatrist who takes interest in the subject or people like me and you.



Yep, read about most serial killers, swindlers, bullies and whatnot and you'll find they leave no red flags, society is tailor suited for villians, psychopaths/narcissists have ridiculous charisma, are skilled liars and manipulators. Society judges people on charm, confidence, lying ability, and manipulation ability, it's why these people flourish so well and can do so much damage. They care about no one but themselves, they are not insane, but just evil, that's why everytime a psycho/narc commits a crime and tries the "insanity card" they get laughed at and sent to jail, because they are clearly sane.



They either end up dead, robbed, abused or betrayed, psychopaths come in a variety of flavors, but if the job description has "jerk" attached to it, psychopaths are naturals at it.



It's because society is very narcissistic and tends to glorify psychopathic traits, and relies on superficial things to judge people, and there is no one faker than a psychopath/narcissist. There is even a saying "Villians are interesting, heroes are boring", take this attitude into account with everything else and you get why villians get away with the things they do.

I'm sick and tired of the "no Aspie can ever be a murderer/rapist/molester" line that is often repeated by ASD apologists. Let's face it, there are good autistics, evil ones, and everything between. If we want to be taken seriously we will acknowledge that basic fact.

I wouldn't think so. He was a master of manipulation and seduction; not exactly the core qualities of autistic people. My guess is he was a psychopath or at the very least a narcissist.

To me when it comes to Ted Bundy or Adam Lanza or whoever,
them having PDD or AS or whatever is irrelevant.
Their problem when it comes to them killing people is they are homicidal.
This is where causation and coloration gets messed up.
They didn't kill people because they were PDD or AS,
they killed people because they were homicidal.
They may have had PDD or AS the same as thousands of other people,
but what made them killers was being homicidal, not because they
also happened to be PPD or AS or whatever.

Last edited by EzraS on 15 Jan 2014, 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

Psychopathy/sociopathy are different from ASD.
Narcissism is differently from psychopathy/sociopathy (unlike what demon says)
Psychopathy is essentially the same thing as sociopathy.

Instead of me talking about what traits Ted Bundy showed and didn't show, I'd rather like to point out what I know about all 3 of the conditions listed above.

All 3 diagnoses have overlapping traits. (It was actually quite painful for me to, very recently, learn about someone I care about that thinks that he's a sociopath because of his ASD and due to the lack of understanding of the emotions he does experience.)
-In any case, the main thing among all 3 diagnoses is a lack of empathy. But whether it's a lack of cognitive empathy or a lack of emotional empathy is the first difference. It's possible for someone with ASD to have a lack of emotional empathy, but it's also possible for an otherwise NT to lack emotions. eg: A depressed person who's apathetic also doesn't experience emotions and therefore they also lacks emotional empathy.
-Once it's decided if there's a lack of emotional empathy one must figure out if there's narcissism involved. Does the person require and desire someone to look up to them? Do they manipulate people? Manipulating people isn't a symptom of ASD. An autistic would likely be bad at manipulating people too, although it's not impossible that they could become good at it.
-Psychopaths also like to experience lots of things. Autistics are generally hypersensitive though...they get overloads of sensations. Psychopaths do not, they rather crave more experience and sensation, will take part in thrill-seeking behaviour just so they can feel SOMETHING. This particularly aspect is once again, more akin to a depressed apathetic person than someone with ASD. This is also a separate thing from narcissism too.
-Sociopaths and narcissists often have pretty bad upbringings which can feed their conditions making them worse. But a bad ASD upbringing doesn't seem to 'feed' ASD. Sure with proper guidance when young it could make the difference between being able to cope in the adult world with ASD and not, but that's not quite the same thing.

It bothers me that the general knowledge about psychopathy is only about narcissistic psychopaths, as google searches turn up. But from a clinical standpoint, the 2 are separate diagnoses that can overlap.

Depending on the criteria for having sociopathy/psychopathy he could very well have had ASD as well. But I also wouldn't be surprised if the criteria for having ASD or psychopathy means someone can't have both of them. It would make sense to me that someone couldn't be both.

I don't personally have enough knowledge about Ted Bundy to say one thing or another, but I would call him a narcissistic psychopath from my general knowledge about him.

Well said.

Back in my teens, I used to think he probably had it but then dismissed it because he could easily pick up women and talk to them and knew how to get them and no way would I be able to do that with people. He was manipulative so that was how he was able to get them. But then I thought couldn't an ASD person actually learn these things by reading books about it? There are books out there about body language and relationships and dating and how to talk to women or men and what if it was his special interest? But I don't think we'll ever know.

+1

The unibomber had avoidant personality disorder, not autism.

Why does being socially awkward always equal autism in the minds of some people? There are so many things that make people socially awkward. Some are psychiatric problems. Others are not. Autism is about neurology. It is more than being socially awkward.

For further clarity regarding the "Unabomber" ...

a. The defense psychiatrists diagnosed him as having paranoid schizophrenia

b. The prosecutor psychiatrists (some of them not actually seeing him) diagnosed him as having schizotypal disorder or schizoaffective disorder.

c. The prison psychologist who did the examination for the government concluded:
- appearance of non-bizarre delusional beliefs disorder
- appearance of ideas of reference disorder most of his life
- he believed in two main ideas : increasing technology will lead to totalitarianism, and rebelling against society is necessary for personal liberty

Per DSM 4:
Axis I: Schizophrenia, Paranoid Type, Episodic with Interepisode Residual Symptoms, 295.30 (Provisional)
Axis II: Paranoid Personality Disorder, With Avoidant and Antisocial Features, 301.0 (Premorbid)

source for above, http://www.paulcooijmans.com/psychology ... eport.html

d. His beliefs sound like libertarianism. They realize that technology will be used to monitor, control people, and also strongly believe in fighting for personal liberty

e. However, the prison doctor's diagnosis is based on his *intense preoccupation with these beliefs*

I very much doubt it from the vast amount of reading I have done on this subject. He was known as "The Ladykiller" not just because well... that's what he did, but also because he had a reputation for being very charming. Everything points to a sociopath with narcisistic tendencies. He knew how to take advantage of people's weaknesses. As an adult he was a highly socially adept predator.

Also, I know a few people who seem autistic because of childhood trauma outcomes, none of these people received a diagnosis of autism.