((edited for typos with an added comment at the end about the cat pictures))
Qualifier*** This is a really intellectual message, but am not saying anything that could possibly be interpreted by someone or other as mean, so people who are not into very deep enquiry, or at least my style of doing it, may just as well skip this. To Beneficci, this is NOT about you personally or anything about your own brain function, but rather in response to some very interesting material you presented around the subject of framing. I am going to go a bit further with this flower pot analogy, which is a pretty good one, and apply it in a different direction to try to make a comprehensive point about the way different data can be factored into a potential picture.
beneficii wrote:
Got my own cat picture, my family's cat, Charlie!
Anyway, as for the flower pot analogy I discussed a few pages back, here was my inspiration for the use of the term
flower pot. If anyone wants me to, I'll translate it, but I think it should be obvious from the images; it comes from page 45 of a book called
Chibi Maruko Chan's Handcrafting Class (1st ed.):
http://i60.tinypic.com/2jzjpu.jpghttp://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%81%A1%E3%81 ... 9%E5%AE%A4The way things are framed by another person can change the focus and so affect the outcome leading to the experiencing of personal pain or pleasure. Since most if not all people want to feel good, and this makes perfect sense, we can assume that this is the intent of focusing in one direction or another. The situation you gave in the previous message about choosing wrong details to tell the police about a car accident you were involved in and then, because of this, losing the case in court does not really fit here, as I am taking it further and going in a different direction with the basic idea..
Quote:
http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%81%A1%E3%81%B3%E3%81%BE%E3%82%8B%E5%AD%90%E3%81%A1%E3%82%83%E3%82%93%E3%81%AE%E6%89%8B%E4%BD%9C%E3%82%8A%E6%95%99%E5%AE%A4-%E6%BA%80%E7%82%B9%E3%82%B2%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%82%B7%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA-%E4%B8%8A%E7%94%B0-%E3%82%8B%E3%81%BF%E5%AD%90/dp/4083140461/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1394894265&sr=8-3&keywords=%E6%89%8B%E4%BD%9C%E3%82%8A%E6%95%99%E5%AE%A4
This may be a little hard to understand, but worth it, and I think that many here can understand it, as they are very smart. If we compare the quote above to the string of cat pictures we have recently seen here, we can see that they both are blanking out information with the obvious intent of inserting new information in such a way as to change the picture. This is obviously subjective and is conjunction with context, as is anything, but which is of more inherent value--the gibberish of the symbols or the string of cat pictures? Again that would be individual, but here is an interesting way to look at it: The cat pictures arouse in the viewer a feeling of bonding and a cozy continuity, a shift away from conflict around disagreement about some idea content which difference in understanding would require some work and even possibly facing and feeling some uncomfortable feelings in order to process, so imo this cat avatar thingy is in some way equivalent to an ostrich putting its head in the sand, but it could also be looked at as having some functional value, depending upon what it means to an individual and what is done with it.
Now the symbols you put will probably translate as nonsense, so could be assumed to be of less value; however there is a different way to look at it if one assumes this long nonsense passage was inserted in order to make some kind of point about representation and how it works in the mind/brain, and even if it wasn't done for this reason, the fact that I have now given an interpretation of what it
could mean adds a potential value.
One thing which I have already mentioned that I have gotten out of this thread, besides learning something about myself, is a new perspective on how framing works in the autistic mind in terms of grasping subtle nuances. I have an insight which never previously occurred to me that autistic people (and this definitely includes myself) can grasp all kinds of very subtle nuances in order to make a framework that feels comfortable, but if someone else is trying to make a different framework that feels uncomfortable, they are unable to grasp the same level of subtlety that would be necessary to grasp in order to get the gist of this other person's framework. Totally interesting.
Now the question arises--does the autistic person really
not get one set of subtle nuances that is no more difficult to get then the set of subtle nuances he himself is using in order to make his own framework? At first I did think yes, he really does not grasp this contrary set of subtle nuances, but it has occurred to me as I am writing this that he probably does grasp the previous set of nuances, as there is evidence that in order to make the counter or opposing framework, he would have to in some way get the gist of the other fr5amework that he does not like.
In terms of language and the brain, this opens a doorway to an entirely different way of understanding autism in term of object relations in that when something begins to represent something, such as bonding around love of cats as opposed, say, to the processing of information that may be uncomfortable, then it is difficult to make a shift, but if material like the set of seemingly meaningless symbols is presented to the mind, this makes it more possible to make a shift into understanding, as the question can then be asked--what was he trying to say when he presented these symbols? --but what the person was actually trying to say becomes less important then the" it,"-- lets call it the flower pot (but is it really the flower pot or is it the person?:-)-- because attributing a potential meaning to the placement of the' meaningless' symbols allows us to look at the sequence of cats in a new way. From this perspective, the meaningless symbols are of more value than the cat totem, which simply perpetrates certain emotions associated with cats but kind of just stops there. This is why I have referred to it as a totem.
p.s. To Cornflake--cute cat pictures (and the other cat pictures,too): At the time I began wrtiting this message your pictures were not there. They came up just now when I previewed this message...
((edited just now for typos, but want to add that I notice that the cat pictures are starting to become individualized in such a way that more complex meaning can be attributed rather then just warm and fuzzy, so some shift in idea processing has occurred...we all want to understand as much as we possibly can while at the same time not making it too complex...however, sometimes it is necessary in life to be able to process kind of complex material...))
Last edited by littlebee on 15 Mar 2014, 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.