Are people with autism borderline sociopaths?

Post Reply New Topic

But in this chapter we discover that zero degrees of empathy does not invariably lead a person to do awful things to others. Having empathy difficulties may be socially disabling, but empathy is not the sole route to developing a moral code and a moral conscience that leads a person to behave ethically. This is where we meet people who have zero degrees of empathy but who are Zero-Positive. It seems unthinkable, but bear with me. Zero-Positive means that alongside difficulties with empathy, these individuals have remarkably precise, exact minds. They have Asperger Syndrome. ... Second, the way their brain processes information paradoxically leads them to be supermoral rather than immoral.

From Cohen's new book, The Science of Evil (it explains the disorders that lack empathy):

That... is so wrong in my case.

Thanks a lot anyway for posting this, it's an interesting quote to keep in mind.

Second, the way their brain processes information paradoxically leads them to be supermoral rather than immoral.

Everything I read about them in medical journals seems to indicate that people with Aspergers and Autism are in fact borderline sociopaths?

He refers to treating other people the way you would like them to treat you. Kind of hinting that the Golden Rule was an autistic invention.

I agree, this describes me perfectly. I am unassuming, I always follow the rules, and I always believe the worst about myself, even to the point where it gets truly ridiculous. I am always worried about offending people or stepping on their toes. I am 0% ambitious, and I can only make myself do something if I convince myself that it would help other people. The results might sometimes seem self-centred, but the motives are always completely the opposite.

JoeMenno 5 points 1 month ago
Very interesting. Do you think you have anything in common with autistic/Asperger's people in terms of not understanding/being affected by others' emotions?
permalinkparentreportreply
[–]rawthrot[S] 9 points 1 month ago
This is a big common thread. A difference, from what I understand, is that people with autism/Aspergers genuinely don't understand -- or at least can't naturally intuit -- why it is that other people feel the way they do, or how other people will respond emotionally to certain events. I am actually very good at these things. To put it in your terms, I think being autistic means you don't understand others' emotions and therefore aren't properly affected by them. I understand others' emotions perfectly, but they still don't affect me because I don't care.
permalinkparentreportreply
[–]Antreus 34 points 1 month ago*
As someone on the autistic spectrum, we do tend to have higher-than-average 'affective empathy', but we are ineffective at demonstrating it, or intuitively grasping the emotional states of ourselves and others - social faux pas are common. Everything is intellectualized for me in that department. The world of an autistic is hypo and hyper sensitive to external stimuli. In many ways an autistic individual can be a potentially good defense against the Dark Arts [(psychotic behaviour); I jest]. But, we are a classic foil to psychotics, don't get us mixed. I have a strong sense of social justice; not merely what is conventionally "evil", as I too am often amorally acculturated to social mores. It isn't that I don't care, but rather I am unaffected at times because I don't know why what I'm doing affects others, depending on the context I do it in.. sometimes its logically sound but not morally sound, but always ethically sound. It doesn't stem from immorality or unethical behaviour outright, but ignorance and anomie. I don't mean any of this as a disparage against psychotics.

We do understand emotions, especially if the person is high-functioning and autistic, but sometimes don't know what to do with the feelings, so they are very black and white. Our bodies tend to 'attack' us because our feelings can be so intense e.g., Rocking back and forth, pacing, self-injurious behaviour, complex body movements, spasms of all sorts, nervous laughter at things that aren't funny, somatic anxiety (ants crawling on skin), etc.
I think apathy is more in line with being a psychopath than being autistic, because you aren't affected. I think empathy is reserved for neuro-typicals, wherein it is intellectualized constantly for me, hit or miss. Sympathy/Compassion is an emotion I can easily demonstrate towards all forms of life even slugs being salted. I believe attention to be a high form of generosity and I am sure many slugs have thanked me.

Autistic and AS individuals actually have a greater response to stress in the environment and when they witness others (animals and even trees) experiencing it themselves than neurotypical people do, even though our non-verbal communication shows otherwise; we care but can come off as disturbed, an a**hole, dis-associative, or cold in order to maintain our mental faculties. I become more formal, handsoff, and avoidant the more emotional demands are placed upon me, just so I can function.
Scary movies are usually exponentially more terrifying for us on the autistic specturm than the 'average joe', even though we register similarly on some tests that look for psychotic characteristics. I think I can empathize with others instinctively when I see/hear them being accosted/endangered, because that is a sensation I feel very intensely. I am usually the first person to call 9-11 and the first person to stand of to a belligerent drunk accosting a cashier at a late night grocery, even though I don't know what to do once the confrontation starts, because at that point I'm all nerves.

There was a poll here, around half the people had lots of cognitive empathy and little affective empathy, and half the other way around. I guess it would depend on the particular kind of abuse you had as a child and how you reacted to it. Anyway, I'm an autistic with cognitive empathy and the similarities and differences with psychopaths are interesting. They have blind spots in different areas. They can't tell when someone is acting, for one. That means they can't see when people are feeling things. They must be able to deduce when people should be feeling things. That means they have the same motives as NTs. So I don't really know the difference between psychopaths and NTs.

Sociopath and psychopath are both nothing more than colloquial terms for APD. They both mean exactly the same thing.