Why aremany people anti-psychiatry, it helps us aspies a lot
10 Dec 2009, 4:50 pm
Nevertheless, I am very glad that I have a balance of both opposition and support for psychiatry, and people have evidence to support their points. The last thing I would want to see is someone basing an opinion on no structural evidence, which has been reputable with the Scientologists. Lets hope theres no Scientologists within this discussion. I am also very glad that people are taking the time to post their opinions and that theres mutual respect between opposition and support. I dont want this convo to become some debate. Thanks for all the comments so far.
I think there's more people on Earth (than just Scientologists) who have an opinion without having structural evidence (I don't know much about Scientology, never met any Scientologist).
I wish you good luck with your studies!
_________________
1975, ASD: Asperger's Syndrome (diagnosed: October 22, 2009)
Interests: science, experimental psychology, psychophysics, music (listening and playing (guitar)) and visual arts
Don't focus on your weaknesses, focus on your strengths
10 Dec 2009, 6:12 pm
My parents took me to a psychiatrist when I was 12 to get tested for AS. He was good in it. I don't think I had any bad experiances with him. I don't really remember what he looks like. He prescribed me medication for my depression. I think he tried different pills on me and mom would take me off them because they weren't working. So he try another kind. Then when he prescribed the right ones, the dose was too high so I had difficulty peeing and the dose was lowered.
11 Dec 2009, 7:00 am
Psychiatrists have saved as many people as George Bush prevented terrorist attacks.
Starting by saying that any who disagree are uneducated, absent-minded, and also crazy, or are oder people who are behind the times, sounds like you are in training for the "Profession" Or writing speaches for Bush.
Then you go on to say that only Psychiarists, or those discredited for having a mental illness, should be allowed to have an opinion.
I would think that is why the Courts have had to rule on the matter, first in 1974 that a person could not be locked up without due process, which closed State Mental Hospitals, and I worked to relocate people in the community, where they did well. One of those comes here, he now holds a Doctorate, a teaching Professorship, before that he spent a decade in locked treatment.
The more recent court ruling was the $2,000,000,000 fine paid by drug companies for directing the mental health profession to use their drugs off label, that was the Government stepping in to put a stop to drugging people for profit, not medical need.
It is a rerun of 1974 when 30% of the country were given scripts for speed and barbs by the same people for the same reason, money. The FDA and the DEA had to step in and stop the drug pushing.
The last decade has seen the drug pushing return. From 1974 to 1994 drugs were little used, but since 1994, it has become a $10 billion a year industry.
As one of those old people, maturing as a human is not at all improved by living on mind controlling drugs, and maturing as a human is the only goal.
What is being treated is what we knew as normal childhood, and young adult life. It is messy, but it has been going on for a long long time before the drug for everything cult.
Besides side effects we can see, gaining twenty pounds in twelve weeks, we also see a lack of maturity, children are being frozen at an early stage, then getting older. Obese children are as new as this last wave of drug everything, and they are just not becoming adults.
The number of people being drugged far exceeds any projection of need. Hence acting like teenage boys now becomes ADD, ADHA, and there are drugs for that.
A field that has been busted by the Courts for Human Rights violations, endless detention, being drugged, without trial, any evidence of even being a danger to themselves or others, the new standard that came out of that ruling, which is limited to I think six weeks max, has a lot to live down.
Being busted for putting 30% of the country on speed and barbs, was the largest all time drug bust.
The $2 Billion dollar recent fine was also an all time largest Court intervention, and it is ongoing.
Psychiatry claims to be a branch of medicine, but there the first rule is, "Do no harm."
Those released from the prison hospitals did merge back into the world. They would have died behind locked doors, thousands of years of life was stolen. Community treatment has worked, showing there was never any medical need for their acts.
Being found guilty in the two largest drug cases ever, the second ongoing, both which also show no medical need for speed, barbs, or the new generation of designer drugs, that in both cases the motive was money, the profession taking kickbacks for pushing drugs, shows an unrepentant lot of career criminals.
It is time to take away the script pad forever. Besides the damage they do to the children, they are also the most self medicated profession, free samples. Drugged people pushing drugs, is not in the national best interest. As a class, they live on Medicade Welfare Fraud, and we all are paying for them. They put people on drugs, so they can treat them for being on drugs.
Drugs are screened for medical need and effectiveness, the FDA is strict, no more Thiaomides. Off lable use is totally untested, and has been shown to lack all of the safeguards of drug trials.
They are doing what the Snake Oil and Exlixer folks were stopped from doing by the Pure Food and Drug Act. The ongoing case before the FDA and the Courts is not the bad old days, or some Hollywood movie, it is current events in the field, and the convictions have shown a pattern of Professionals taking $100,000 a year to push drugs for a drug company, and that the drug companies activly sought out thousands of people to take bribes, to use their products off label and without testing, all for a profit motive.
Giving people unapproved drugs for conditions they do not have is Medicare Fraud on a huge scale. A lot more convictions are coming, and restrictions on any drug use.
Like professional athalets, bus drivers, and public saftey fields, Psychiatry is going to have to piss in a cup to continue practice, and if they cannot reach the mind with talk, they can go out of business, for they have not been responsable with drugs.
The Courts have never bought the "Only the Mafia should talk about the Mafia, Defense".
"I was only following orders," did not hold up.
Everyone used to have their Tonsiles removed, now it is rare.
Drugging children for profit is going the same way.
The People, Insurance Companies, Government, Courts, all find that people are being mistreated for conditions that do not exist with unapproved drugs, and that is driving up medical costs for everyone, due to massive fraud.
Your defense of the profession is weak compared to the case against you.
"We were only trying to help people"
CockneyRebel
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Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Age: 51
Gender: Male
Posts: 121,235
Location: In my own little country
12 Dec 2009, 2:42 am
Inventor, you have many agreeable points, however you are only looking at the negatives and trying to make a case against me ONLY using those negatives. Acetaminophen have harmed more people than todays psychiatric drugs (It can cause Reye's syndrome in people under 18, and yet millions of moms give to to their kids. Reye's Syndrome often being fatal) And almost any pharmaceutical drug makes somewhat of a profit. I think you need to look at the cons of other branches of medicine as well and realize that there is a silent downside in any branch of medicine, any profession respectively. And any branch of medicine, even psychiatry, has its pros. You are only looking at one side, you need to look at both sides, and also make the comparison between psychiatry and another medical branch.
I found that you are working strongly against me, and I made it clear multiple times that I am trying to keep this on an opinion-opinion basis, not a debate. I also feel like you are treating me like an enemy, which is what I am trying to prevent between people in this conversation.
Lastly, thank you Scientist for the kind words, they are much appreciated.
19 Jul 2011, 9:06 pm
Psychiatrists have saved as many people as George Bush prevented terrorist attacks.
Starting by saying that any who disagree are uneducated, absent-minded, and also crazy, or are oder people who are behind the times, sounds like you are in training for the "Profession" Or writing speaches for Bush.
Then you go on to say that only Psychiarists, or those discredited for having a mental illness, should be allowed to have an opinion.
I would think that is why the Courts have had to rule on the matter, first in 1974 that a person could not be locked up without due process, which closed State Mental Hospitals, and I worked to relocate people in the community, where they did well. One of those comes here, he now holds a Doctorate, a teaching Professorship, before that he spent a decade in locked treatment.
The more recent court ruling was the $2,000,000,000 fine paid by drug companies for directing the mental health profession to use their drugs off label, that was the Government stepping in to put a stop to drugging people for profit, not medical need.
It is a rerun of 1974 when 30% of the country were given scripts for speed and barbs by the same people for the same reason, money. The FDA and the DEA had to step in and stop the drug pushing.
The last decade has seen the drug pushing return. From 1974 to 1994 drugs were little used, but since 1994, it has become a $10 billion a year industry.
As one of those old people, maturing as a human is not at all improved by living on mind controlling drugs, and maturing as a human is the only goal.
What is being treated is what we knew as normal childhood, and young adult life. It is messy, but it has been going on for a long long time before the drug for everything cult.
Besides side effects we can see, gaining twenty pounds in twelve weeks, we also see a lack of maturity, children are being frozen at an early stage, then getting older. Obese children are as new as this last wave of drug everything, and they are just not becoming adults.
The number of people being drugged far exceeds any projection of need. Hence acting like teenage boys now becomes ADD, ADHA, and there are drugs for that.
A field that has been busted by the Courts for Human Rights violations, endless detention, being drugged, without trial, any evidence of even being a danger to themselves or others, the new standard that came out of that ruling, which is limited to I think six weeks max, has a lot to live down.
Being busted for putting 30% of the country on speed and barbs, was the largest all time drug bust.
The $2 Billion dollar recent fine was also an all time largest Court intervention, and it is ongoing.
Psychiatry claims to be a branch of medicine, but there the first rule is, "Do no harm."
Those released from the prison hospitals did merge back into the world. They would have died behind locked doors, thousands of years of life was stolen. Community treatment has worked, showing there was never any medical need for their acts.
Being found guilty in the two largest drug cases ever, the second ongoing, both which also show no medical need for speed, barbs, or the new generation of designer drugs, that in both cases the motive was money, the profession taking kickbacks for pushing drugs, shows an unrepentant lot of career criminals.
It is time to take away the script pad forever. Besides the damage they do to the children, they are also the most self medicated profession, free samples. Drugged people pushing drugs, is not in the national best interest. As a class, they live on Medicade Welfare Fraud, and we all are paying for them. They put people on drugs, so they can treat them for being on drugs.
Drugs are screened for medical need and effectiveness, the FDA is strict, no more Thiaomides. Off lable use is totally untested, and has been shown to lack all of the safeguards of drug trials.
They are doing what the Snake Oil and Exlixer folks were stopped from doing by the Pure Food and Drug Act. The ongoing case before the FDA and the Courts is not the bad old days, or some Hollywood movie, it is current events in the field, and the convictions have shown a pattern of Professionals taking $100,000 a year to push drugs for a drug company, and that the drug companies activly sought out thousands of people to take bribes, to use their products off label and without testing, all for a profit motive.
Giving people unapproved drugs for conditions they do not have is Medicare Fraud on a huge scale. A lot more convictions are coming, and restrictions on any drug use.
Like professional athalets, bus drivers, and public saftey fields, Psychiatry is going to have to piss in a cup to continue practice, and if they cannot reach the mind with talk, they can go out of business, for they have not been responsable with drugs.
The Courts have never bought the "Only the Mafia should talk about the Mafia, Defense".
"I was only following orders," did not hold up.
Everyone used to have their Tonsiles removed, now it is rare.
Drugging children for profit is going the same way.
The People, Insurance Companies, Government, Courts, all find that people are being mistreated for conditions that do not exist with unapproved drugs, and that is driving up medical costs for everyone, due to massive fraud.
Your defense of the profession is weak compared to the case against you.
"We were only trying to help people"
is this prosecution movement still going on? links?
Sweetleaf
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Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
19 Jul 2011, 11:08 pm
I don't even have access to any psychiatric treatment or medical treatment in general.....no health insurance tends to do that. But other then that there probably are some in the psychology profession who are just in it for the money and not to help people.....that is true with any profession I think. I am not totally anti-psychiatry, but I do not totally trust it either.
I am taking psychology in college though so I am somewhat educated, but there are some things I don't totally agree with. Like some psyciatrists/psychologists seem to think recovory means making someone into what society sees as a perfect person....when I think it should be about getting that person to a functional level but not trying to condition them into someone they are not.
19 Jul 2011, 11:34 pm
Psychiatrist have never been too useful to me. All they want to do is medicate. I am not anti-medication, but if that's all your doing, then you're not doing anything a six pack of beer couldn't do. If medication is all they offer, then they are really treating the symptoms and not the problem.
I do go to a therapist regularly. I do find that helpful. But to be honest, if I had a close friend I wouldn't need a therapist. I pay her to listen like a friend would do. But without a friend, the therapist is helpful to me.
Sweetleaf
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Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
19 Jul 2011, 11:37 pm
I do go to a therapist regularly. I do find that helpful. But to be honest, if I had a close friend I wouldn't need a therapist. I pay her to listen like a friend would do. But without a friend, the therapist is helpful to me.
Even therapy is not very helpful for me.
And quite frankly a 6 pack of beer beats anti-depressants any day in my opinion. Besides with a lot of anti-depressants you should not drink with them anyways....yeah I would rather drink.
19 Jul 2011, 11:40 pm
I do go to a therapist regularly. I do find that helpful. But to be honest, if I had a close friend I wouldn't need a therapist. I pay her to listen like a friend would do. But without a friend, the therapist is helpful to me.
Even therapy is not very helpful for me.
And quite frankly a 6 pack of beer beats anti-depressants any day in my opinion. Besides with a lot of anti-depressants you should not drink with them anyways....yeah I would rather drink.
Not to mention, it's much more economical.
Sweetleaf
Veteran
Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
20 Jul 2011, 12:02 am
I do go to a therapist regularly. I do find that helpful. But to be honest, if I had a close friend I wouldn't need a therapist. I pay her to listen like a friend would do. But without a friend, the therapist is helpful to me.
Even therapy is not very helpful for me.
And quite frankly a 6 pack of beer beats anti-depressants any day in my opinion. Besides with a lot of anti-depressants you should not drink with them anyways....yeah I would rather drink.
Not to mention, it's much more economical.
True maybe, but a lot of the beer I like is not too cheap.....though 8 dollars for a 6 pack of really good beer is probably cheaper then however much a prescription costs. Not to mention alcohol does not make me freak out like the anti-depressants did.
20 Jul 2011, 1:48 am
I can see how they don't help people, sure. But I love my psychiatrist, he genuinely challenges me to get better. One of the careers I'm seriously looking into is psychiatry and clinical psychology, and one of the things I'm most nervous about is dismissing the people who come to me or not being able to help, and those nerves increase tenfold when there's so so much out there about not 'believing' in psychiatry.
Guess that's something I'll just have to deal with if that is indeed the career route I choose to go down. 
20 Jul 2011, 2:15 am
Psychiatrists, especially those who work in hospitals where patients can't leave of their own volition, don't ever have to deliver any results. If their 90% of their patients end up back in the mental health system, this is assumed to be because mental illness is magic and the doctors are just helpless before it...Which raises the question as to why we're paying them six-figures or close to it to treat them.
Psychiatrists are incompetent professionals because they cannot deliver results reliably.
Psychiatrists are incompetent scientists because they cannot predict an uncontrolled environment reliably.
Psychiatrists are competent only as wardens for people society would rather forget.
jojobean
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Location: In Georgia sipping a virgin pina' colada while the rest of the world is drunk
20 Jul 2011, 4:17 am
I have been in the mental health system as a kid...hospitalized 3 times and put on a ton of meds.
1 medicine caused me to have a nearly fatal seizure and made me gain 100 pounds in 3 months.
I am still stuggling to get the weight off.
Another psychatrist put me on paxil which caused me to have to drop out of college because I could not stay awake...I found out later that Paxil depletes Melitonin.
that same one put me on a host of other meds one of which made me halucinate during finals
He also drugged my brother up till he was so manic that my mom had to keep him home from school until it wore off
He also put me on a medication that affected my seizures in a bad way...after I told him that I have serious sezuire disorder
He also violated the Hepa act by giving my mom's information to an evil PC doc that used the information against her and almost killed her.
I have had ONE good psychaitrist my whole life and he wont take me as a patient because he no longer accept medicare due to massive cuts to medicare and a new rule that says that doctors cant by pass it and jsut use the secondary insurance...which is what he used to do for me.
Right now I am just going to a prescription mill for my OCD medicines...The doctor spends no more than 3 minutes with me..writes a prescription, and hurries me out the door for his next patient.
I agree with Inventor about drug companies paying doctors to push their drugs. Those who have been diagnosed with Bipolar and given meds before even completeing a senatance upon a first appointment have been had by a partisipating doctor.
Bipolar drugs and ADHD drugs are the ones being pushed right now on younger and younger kids...but these drugs were not tested on developing brains. A brain is not through developing until it is late adolesent early adult. This why depression meds affect kids totally different than adults and make them suicidal. Bipolar meds are being prescribed to six year olds now days who have a bad case of being a brat. These drugs can cause irreversable brain damage to a devloping brain. However they are being pushed on kids. I even heard of some psychatraists pushing anti-psychotics on 3 year old who just being toddlers and throwing temoer tantrums. I agree with Inventor on this...it has to stop.
There are some aspects of psychology I like. I was a psychology major in college. I like the cognitive behavioral school of thought. I also want to be an art therapist that works with people with ASD's like myself. Art has been the best medicine for me...it has given me purpose, confindence, self esteem, and a gift that keeps giving. Art is my voice.
I want to give that to others like me. The only prescription I will have to give is teaching people how to listen to their creative selves.
I have to take medicine to function as I have a very serious case of OCD without it, but I hate being on medication...it has taken so much from me as it has given me. I hate being fat...it just makes me die alittle each time I look in the mirror. I would not be fat if it was not for xyprexia which almost killed me due to a massive seizure that I went 3 minutes without breathing nor my heart beating.
Medicine has taken my hard earned GPA away from me because I could not wake up to go to class and failed several classes
Medicine make me dependant on medicare which keeps the good doctors at bay. Only crappy psychiatrists take medicare now days because no one else will go to them.
Medicine makes me allergic to the sun...so I cant enjoy the things I used to
Medicine makes me vunerable to the wims of the government like this shutdown...if social secuity is shut off...affording my medicine next month will be hard. I will have to dip into my savings just to pay bills and for my meds and my doctors apointments.
All that for sanity...it is a hard deal.
Plus unknown to most people even doctors is that big pharm purposely puts side effects in medicines so they can get you to take more medication to treat the side effects and it is downward spiral
_________________
All art is a kind of confession, more or less oblique. All artists, if they are to survive, are forced, at last, to tell the whole story; to vomit the anguish up.
-James Baldwin
Tamsin
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