Undiagnosed aspie--RDOS aspie results attached

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rdos
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15 Feb 2012, 4:35 pm

nemorosa wrote:

You'll note I said that I don't have a problem with many of the questions. I know how these questionnaires are usually designed and why. Whether the whole thing hangs together or has any meaningful patterns is something different.

My issue with the aspie quiz is nothing at all to do with the format.

You are not arguing against me, but against all the people that have answered to Aspie Quiz. I already told you the selection algorithm was automatic. I've not selected any of the questions that are part of Aspie Quiz. They are there because of how people have answered.

nemorosa
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15 Feb 2012, 7:10 pm

rdos wrote:

nemorosa wrote:

So answer who devised the "traps" question and how it does it have anything to do with autism (without self reference please, that's the ultimate scientific no-no)? Why so evasive?

Lepidoptera
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15 Feb 2012, 9:37 pm

Probably worth looking here:

http://asdgestalt.com/viewtopic.php?p=27538#p27538

And maybe here (4 posts up from the bottom):

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt80344.html

nemorosa
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16 Feb 2012, 3:56 am

Lepidoptera wrote:

Probably worth looking here:

http://asdgestalt.com/viewtopic.php?p=27538#p27538

And maybe here (4 posts up from the bottom):

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt80344.html

Thanks for trying to help.

I really wanted to hear this from rdos himself. His strange reluctance is bordering on the ridiculous.

rdos
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16 Feb 2012, 4:28 am

nemorosa wrote:

Lepidoptera wrote:

Probably worth looking here:

http://asdgestalt.com/viewtopic.php?p=27538#p27538

And maybe here (4 posts up from the bottom):

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt80344.html

Thanks for trying to help.

I really wanted to hear this from rdos himself. His strange reluctance is bordering on the ridiculous.

I've said it before, but here is an excerpt from the manuscript about Aspie Quiz:

Quote:

In the development of Aspie Quiz, there was no concern for if personality-types or if ASDs
related to scores or items selected. Instead it focused on the two factors that exclusively
defined “Aspie” and “neurotypical”, not popular ideas about what was related to ASDs.

I think this would answer your question. Aspie Quiz is not a test built from DSM, and in fact has never used DSM as a reference for what is related to the autistic personality-type or not. To construct a test based on DSM, and letting people decide what is related to ASD and what is not, would be a complete disaster, and also would be completely unscientific and would yield useless results. Especially in the absense of clinical evaluation of subjects taking part.

nemorosa wrote:

So answer who devised the "traps" question and how it does it have anything to do with autism (without self reference please, that's the ultimate scientific no-no)? Why so evasive

This has been answered several times now, last from the quote above. The fact that you don't think "fascination for traps" is something that you can relate to, or that you don't think it is related to ASDs have nothing to do with anything. Who constructed the question also has nothing to do with anything. To let you decide that this question is not related to ASD is the ultimate no-no, as then I would have peoples personal opinions (in this case your) decide what is relevant for ASDs or not, and this would lead to complete disaster.

Last edited by rdos on 16 Feb 2012, 5:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

nemorosa
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16 Feb 2012, 5:05 am

That wasn't what I asked and you know it.

EDIT: Ah, you've edited your response with this addition:

Quote:

This has been answered several times now, last from the quote above. The fact that you don't think "fascination for traps" is something that you can relate to, or that you don't think it is related to ASDs have nothing to do with anything. Who constructed the question also has nothing to do with anything. To let you decide that this question is not related to ASD is the ultimate no-no, as then I would have let people (in this case you) decide what is relevant for ASDs, and this would lead to complete disaster.

No, it is simply not true that the question has been answered. I asked who wrote the question and that has never been answered by you.

Now, whether or not I think the traps question is nonsense is neither here nor there, I'll leave that to others to decide. However it is your quiz and you need to justify it's inclusion and evidence for how it is related to ASD's without self reference.

If you think who wrote the question is of no importance why is is so hard for you to supply an answer?

Lastly, for your personal edification, may I recommend this guide to debating techniques.

Last edited by nemorosa on 16 Feb 2012, 5:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

rdos
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16 Feb 2012, 5:08 am

nemorosa wrote:

That wasn't what I asked and you know it.

I know exactly what you are trying to "prove", but I don't take the bait. :wink:

In fact, the automatic algoritms were developped for precisely this reason, since we back then were two people arguing what was relevant and what was not. I'm not going back to that situation.

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16 Feb 2012, 6:11 am

The SLS AS test seems to be straight from the DSM. I think it does a pretty good job.

Here: Asperger's self-assessment

rdos
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16 Feb 2012, 6:52 am

nemorosa wrote:

Now, whether or not I think the traps question is nonsense is neither here nor there, I'll leave that to others to decide. However it is your quiz and you need to justify it's inclusion and evidence for how it is related to ASD's without self reference.

You still don't get it do you? There is no self reference. All the decisions about what goes into Aspie Quiz are based on correlation with the natural factors that define Aspie and neurotypical. If those factors had no relevance for ASDs, then the quiz would simply fail, but they have very good relevance for ASDs, which is why it works. The decision to use those factors instead of manual scoring and question selection was made 5-6 years ago. Back when the decision was made, relevance for ASD lowered a little bit, but the decision to use those were still made because it was the only way to gain scienfic validity. As is evidenced with the current correlation between Aspie Quiz score and AQ score, those factors are very relevant for ASDs.

Thus, the objective of Aspie Quiz is no longer to provide the best possible match with DSM, but to score natural factors in human variation (the personality-type).

nemorosa
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16 Feb 2012, 7:08 am

rdos wrote:

nemorosa wrote:

Of course there is self reference. I asked you earlier about the inclusion of the "traps" question and you said it was a sign of neurodiversity (a term I dislike but hey ho, we'll let it pass). And where is your evidence for this? Why, from your own quiz! The snake truly does eat itself.

But come on please, who wrote the question? Pretty please?

rdos
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16 Feb 2012, 7:29 am

I won't bother to explain it another time. :roll:

nemorosa
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16 Feb 2012, 8:02 am

rdos wrote:

I won't bother to explain it another time. :roll:

Please don't, at least not any of the answers you've already given. One has to ask oneself what it is you have to hide by repeatedly refusing to answer a simple question. Doing a Michael Howard, as we say:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KHMO14KuJk[/youtube]

In my opinion the aspie quiz at rdos.net is peddling invalid and unproven neanderthal pseudoscience from a hobbyist as the "real deal".

Someone here has far more time on their hands than I to address your strange theories.

rdos
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16 Feb 2012, 1:21 pm

The "invalid" Aspie Quiz today has about 500 answers per day. It has been answered by over 400,000 individuals. I don't think nemorosa would be able to do anything about that, especially since only 2-3% of the answers are from WP. Just by becoming so popular it has proved to be useful, regardless if it is crap and psudoscience in the view of nemorosa.

Besides, if it is invalid to use correlations to find ASD traits, then everything that is not written in stone in the DSM-bible is also invalid as ASD traits, as then only the exact criteria is valid. And all the studies that have found other traits (or proposed causes) are just as invalid since it is not in the DSM. Additionally, the AQ test and the ASSQ are invalid as well as they are not copy-cats of DSM. The BAPQ is of course just as invalid.

And right now I have proved with p < 0.05 that Aspie Quiz score is related to Neanderthal heritage. Since Aspie Quiz score is highly correlated to ASD, I've also proved that Neanderthal heritage at least has some causative action in ASDs. I'm sure there will be studies of this in the near future, especially since I know some professionals are looking into doing such a study. So much for the Neanderthal theory being invalid.

nemorosa
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16 Feb 2012, 3:41 pm

rdos wrote:

Numbers are utterly irrelevant.

rdos wrote:

Besides, if it is invalid to use correlations to find ASD traits, then everything that is not written in stone in the DSM-bible is also invalid as ASD traits, as then only the exact criteria is valid. And all the studies that have found other traits (or proposed causes) are just as invalid since it is not in the DSM. Additionally, the AQ test and the ASSQ are invalid as well as they are not copy-cats of DSM. The BAPQ is of course just as invalid.

You seem to think I care much about the other tests or the DSM. Forget about all that, we're talking about your quiz.

rdos wrote:

And right now I have proved with p < 0.05 that Aspie Quiz score is related to Neanderthal heritage. Since Aspie Quiz score is highly correlated to ASD, I've also proved that Neanderthal heritage at least has some causative action in ASDs. I'm sure there will be studies of this in the near future, especially since I know some professionals are looking into doing such a study. So much for the Neanderthal theory being invalid.

This bit is just too funny. We know next to nothing about Neanderthals, much less their behaviour. Everything you have suggested about them is idle speculation. And to think you accused me earlier of fantasy. I'll concede that you have a very vivid imagination, with a high romanticised view of Neanderthals that so far has nothing to support it.

BTW, did you like Paxman vs. Howard? It's always been a favourite of mine.

PS, it's not too late if you want to tell me who wrote the "traps" question. I'm assuming it wasn't the work of gremlins while you weren't looking.

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16 Feb 2012, 7:30 pm

hanyo wrote:

I'm not diagnosed either but I see some similarities to my thing from that test. My perception on the nt side is very low though.

I'm diagnosed. I took this test before being diagnosed and after and it's roughly the same picture, just with heightened or shortened spans, same configuration on the spectrum.

Your Aspie score: 157 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 47 of 200

I've noticed that the more stressed I am the higher an Aspie score I receive and a preponderance to have a lower NT score.

The hard data alone that he provides would make any statistician oogle. If you could visualize this data I think it would be really fascinating.

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01 Mar 2012, 10:59 am

rdos wrote:

The question "Do you have unusual sexual preferences?" was selected because I didn't want to be too specific about which sexual deviations I think are related to neurodiversity. All I want to say about this is that it is not HBT (Homo, Bi, Trans). I actually don't want ASDs to be thought to be related to specific sexual deviations right now as these are even more stigmatized than DSM diagnosis. Additionally, the link is not that strong, but it was strong enough to include the more general "unusual sexual preferences"
.
And I can assure you that the sexual deviation(s) that are linked to neurodiversity are not cultural. Some strong candidates are not legal and have no known cure, so cannot be cultural.

Is it not important to show that neurodiversity (including the sexual preferences) are not defects or deviations and that the problem is discrimination including the criminalization of differences?

Of course, there is the question of what spin governments and media will use if they are forced to admit that these differences have a neanderthal origin. Will they finally admit that their so-called morals and ethics are immoral and unethical and probably in violation of most constitutions and treaties? Some other response (unfortunately the more likely one, in my opinion)?

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