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leejosepho
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01 Apr 2017, 2:43 pm

QuillAlba wrote:
Babies are really dumb, trust me.

I certainly could never prove otherwise, and either way would make no difference to me.

QuillAlba wrote:
We are born innocent with no need for gods...

That cannot be proven.

QuillAlba wrote:
...if we can communicate from birth then why do we lose it and have to learn languages again?

If any of the various Pre-existence teachings might be true, a mortal language would have to be learned so we can communicate with our fellow mortals around us...and I have heard people say we *cannot* communicate as infants because our awareness of our pre-existence and all things related is being (or has been) blotted from at least conscious memory.

QuillAlba wrote:
What language would a baby speak?

Whatever it was prior to birth.

QuillAlba wrote:
Which religion is a child born with?

Hopefully none beyond whatever it is that facilitates our various ponderings in relation to "God".

QuillAlba wrote:
Do the gods all fight each other to indoctrinate each child?

Some people say so.

QuillAlba wrote:
What system is in place to check that each baby has the correct religion assigned pre-birth?

That would negate free will, but I do believe "deep down in every man, woman, and child, is the fundamental idea of God. It may be obscured by calamity, by pomp, by worship of other things, but in some form or other it is there." ("A.A.", page 55, "We Agnostics")


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QuillAlba
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01 Apr 2017, 3:21 pm

How do you know these things though?

Babies are grown from a sperm and egg in a womb, they have no knowledge outside this environment. This is what I believe from what I have learned of the human species.

My point is where is this knowledge coming from?

Has it ever been tested?



leejosepho
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01 Apr 2017, 4:57 pm

QuillAlba wrote:
How do you know these things though?

I am not claiming to know anything other than the fact there are many beliefs and variations of beliefs, and I am not trying to prove anything or to persuade anyone of anything other than to be cautious of believing we mortals have final, correct answers for questions related to things either prior to or possibly following life as we know it.

QuillAlba wrote:
Babies are grown...in a womb, they have no knowledge outside this environment.

And neither do we have any knowledge outside our own current environment...and maybe that is why the idea of transition to another realm of some kind at times disturbs us just as it might disturb the fetus if s/he knew the birth-canal transition will be next.

QuillAlba wrote:
My point is where is this knowledge coming from?

Has it ever been tested?

Theology and science each begin with questions, speculations, theories and so on, then "test" things in whatever ways they can...but no, there is no once-for-all "test" to prove or disprove anything related to "God".


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jmncrr000
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01 Apr 2017, 11:50 pm

leejosepho wrote:
If you are implying or believing the two are inseparable, that brush is way too broad....


Basically faith means believing in things that you have no evidence to believe in while superstition means believing in things you have no evidence to believe in.


leejosepho wrote:
Do you claim to have any proof of that?


No baby is born believing in the miraculous conception of Jesus, that Muhammad is a prophet or that Joseph Smith was chosen by God to spread Mormonism. Rather children are taught and indoctrinated into believing religious doctrines, or adults freely choose them later in life.



JurgenW
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02 Apr 2017, 6:39 am

I am animistic, so I try to treat the spirit in every item fairly.

But that might not be really a religious thing, so otherwise I am an unorganised post-christian neo-pagan, perhaps.



BettaPonic
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02 Apr 2017, 6:59 am

JurgenW wrote:
I am animistic, so I try to treat the spirit in every item fairly.

But that might not be really a religious thing, so otherwise I am an unorganised post-christian neo-pagan, perhaps.

That sounds very interesting. May I ask where you learned your beliefs? I took a world religions class last year and it was interesting.

Do all items receive fairness? If it poses a threat to you what about that?
Again really sorry if I am bothering you.



leejosepho
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02 Apr 2017, 9:14 am

jmncrr000 wrote:
Basically faith means believing in things that you have no evidence to believe in while superstition means believing in things you have no evidence to believe in.

Not according to Webster:
Quote:
Faith, noun [Latin fides, fido, to trust; Gr. to persuade, to draw towards any thing, to conciliate; to believe, to obey.]

1. Belief; the assent of the mind to the truth of what is declared by another, resting on his authority and veracity, without other evidence; the judgment that what another states or testifies is the truth.
----

Superstition, noun [Latin superstitio, supersto; super and sto, to stand.]

1. Excessive exactness or rigor in religious opinions or practice; extreme and unnecessary scruples in the observance of religious rites not commanded, or of points of minor importance; excess or extravagance in religion; the doing of things not required by God, or abstaining from things not forbidden; or the belief of what is absurd, or belief without evidence.

Faith helps make it possible for us to believe the next chair where we sit will support us where superstition would be something like believing we must first circle around it three times.

jmncrr000 wrote:
No baby is born believing in the miraculous conception of Jesus, that Muhammad is a prophet or that Joseph Smith was chosen by God to spread Mormonism.

That does not prove we are atheists at birth. Heathen, maybe, but "atheist" is a choice or option for later consideration.


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Last edited by leejosepho on 02 Apr 2017, 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

BettaPonic
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02 Apr 2017, 9:17 am

leejosepho wrote:
jmncrr000 wrote:
Basically faith means believing in things that you have no evidence to believe in while superstition means believing in things you have no evidence to believe in.

Not according to Webster:
Quote:
Faith, noun [Latin fides, fido, to trust; Gr. to persuade, to draw towards any thing, to conciliate; to believe, to obey.]

1. Belief; the assent of the mind to the truth of what is declared by another, resting on his authority and veracity, without other evidence; the judgment that what another states or testifies is the truth.
----

Superstition, noun [Latin superstitio, supersto; super and sto, to stand.]

1. Excessive exactness or rigor in religious opinions or practice; extreme and unnecessary scruples in the observance of religious rites not commanded, or of points of minor importance; excess or extravagance in religion; the doing of things not required by God, or abstaining from things not forbidden; or the belief of what is absurd, or belief without evidence.


jmncrr000 wrote:
No baby is born believing in the miraculous conception of Jesus, that Muhammad is a prophet or that Joseph Smith was chosen by God to spread Mormonism.

That does not prove we are atheists at birth. Heathen, maybe, but "atheist" is a choice or option for later consideration.

Most atheists do not define atheism that way. Most atheists say lacking a belief in deities makes you an atheist.



leejosepho
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02 Apr 2017, 9:24 am

BettaPonic wrote:
Most atheists say lacking a belief in deities makes you an atheist.

Understood, but that is more of a dogma than a proper definition...
Quote:
Atheist, noun (Webster)

One who disbelieves the existence of a God, or Supreme intelligent Being.


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BettaPonic
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02 Apr 2017, 9:28 am

leejosepho wrote:
BettaPonic wrote:
Most atheists say lacking a belief in deities makes you an atheist.

Understood, but that is more of a dogma that a proper definition...
Quote:
Atheist, noun

One who disbelieves the existence of a God, or Supreme intelligent Being.

I admit that us atheists have chosen a very confusing definition. Most atheists such as Richard Dawkins have turned atheism into a scale. With on one end people who lack a belief. On the other end there are atheists who say with certainty that there is no god. Atheists such as myself lack a belief in god, but do not claim with certainty to know.



leejosepho
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02 Apr 2017, 9:33 am

BettaPonic wrote:
I admit that us atheists have chosen a very confusing definition. Most atheists such as Richard Dawkins have turned atheism into a scale. With on one end people who lack a belief. On the other end there are atheists who say with certainty that there is no god. Atheists such as myself lack a belief in god, but do not claim with certainty to know.

Understood, and I defend your right to view all of that in any way you might choose...and I think what you have just shared here can be helpful to others still trying to sort their ways through all of this!


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BettaPonic
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02 Apr 2017, 9:37 am

leejosepho wrote:
BettaPonic wrote:
I admit that us atheists have chosen a very confusing definition. Most atheists such as Richard Dawkins have turned atheism into a scale. With on one end people who lack a belief. On the other end there are atheists who say with certainty that there is no god. Atheists such as myself lack a belief in god, but do not claim with certainty to know.

Understood, and I defend your right to view all of that in any way you might choose...and I think what you have just shared here can be helpful to others still trying to sort their ways through all of this!

Thank you, I do admit the definition is getting more and more confusing. I tend to go with the definition, because I prefer to use a groups preferred definition. I admit that doesn't always work though.



yelekam
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02 Apr 2017, 10:13 am

I'm Diyinian



leejosepho
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02 Apr 2017, 10:24 am

yelekam wrote:
I'm Diyinian

Do you mean Divinian?
Quote:
divinian (Urban Dictionary)
the best friend in the world; nobody could ask for a better guy to hang out with
Wow, he's such a divinian!


Webster has many definitions there and this one seems closest:
Quote:
Divine, adjective [Latin , a god.]
...
5. Godlike; heavenly; excellent in the highest degree; extraordinary; apparently above what is human. In this application the word admits of comparison; as a divine invention; a divine genius; the divinest mind.


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yelekam
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02 Apr 2017, 10:55 am

leejosepho wrote:
yelekam wrote:
I'm Diyinian

Do you mean Divinian?
Quote:
divinian (Urban Dictionary)
the best friend in the world; nobody could ask for a better guy to hang out with
Wow, he's such a divinian!


Webster has many definitions there and this one seems closest:
Quote:
Divine, adjective [Latin , a god.]
...
5. Godlike; heavenly; excellent in the highest degree; extraordinary; apparently above what is human. In this application the word admits of comparison; as a divine invention; a divine genius; the divinest mind.


No I mean Diyinian. Its a religion which recognizes the god Diyin (the divine incarnation of goodness), and focuses on promoting righteous living, moral and intellectual development, and working to improve the world.



leejosepho
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02 Apr 2017, 11:57 am

yelekam wrote:
Diyinian...a religion which recognizes the god Diyin (the divine incarnation of goodness), and focuses on promoting righteous living, moral and intellectual development, and working to improve the world.

Too new or too old for the internet? I can find nothing more about it anywhere.


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