take this test. im not too sure it's indicative of aspergers

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Stray-Ana
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25 Jan 2009, 11:38 am

Tantybi wrote:
And why doesn't Sally have a shadow at all?


They only give the other one a shadow when she sits down. The one walking off gets a shadow when her foot is raised and casts a shadow then.

But the real question is, what is that shadow on the box - at first I thought it was from the character standing by it but it isn't because her shadow is on the floor and the shadow is still there when the character is gone from that side. [maybe there is a ghost! :mrgreen:]



Stray-Ana
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25 Jan 2009, 12:01 pm

Ha, my gf said that the one that the ball belongs to wouldn't have remembered she had a ball after she left and came back and wouldn't have looked anywhere...then several days later remember or be reminded that she had a ball then have a tantrum that she didn't know where it was...then everything would have to stop while a complete search was had for the ball...but then she would be happy and felt like she had a brand new ball when she did find it. Yet on finding out it was hiddden from her she would be cross and keep thinking why someone would do that but feel happy again with her NEW ball and obsess over it for the next 12 hours / playing with it and feeling annoyed as to why someone would hide it in the first place and then after all this she would not be interested in the ball at all for sometime until her obsession came back around to it. [basing that on what I would have done in the situation!]



Hector
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25 Jan 2009, 12:14 pm

The answer is obviously the basket, but interestingly the first answer that popped into my head was "the box". I corrected myself a couple of seconds later, but I had to think it through rather than follow my "instinct".

I guess the first thing I try to answer is where I would look, not thinking about where she would look. So it appears to have to do with theory of mind.



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25 Jan 2009, 1:12 pm

But the box is always on the right, it's the "right" answer!!

I think the story is too simple for adult minds. It seems insulting to me. I'm capable of following much bigger scenarios.



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25 Jan 2009, 1:23 pm

Tantybi wrote:
Like if the patient responded with, I feel sorry for Sally because that was mean for Anne to move her ball for no reason...well then we might have an Aspie on our hands.


I would actually try and give Anne a piece of my mind for deliberately trying to confuse Sally (once I'd realised that Sally was looking in the wrong place). I would probably give Anne a good telling off see her as a heartless bully. I would speak up on Sally's behalf and be one of her defendants in court if necessary. If it was my ball and I was Sally, I'd be furious. I get sick of people coming into my room and moving all my stuff when I'm not looking and putting it back in the wrong place without my permission.

If it was my ball I'd be very attached to it. If someone deflated it, I'd mourn for it. I'm not being funny. When my old computer "died" I felt like I'd lost someone very dear to me even though I'd copied all the files. I wept for hours afterwards

I feel the same when any of my equipment breaks or is misplaced.
They are my company when I see few enough people, so it's heartbreaking if anything happens to them.

If someone takes or moves any of my stuff, I feel like my possessions have been "abducted". That's why I've been reluctant to share my things with anyone.



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25 Jan 2009, 3:00 pm

marshall wrote:
zen_mistress wrote:
I think one of the reasons I failed the test also is because I was paying more attention to the marble than to the dolls. I had sort of assumed that the test was about the whereabouts of the marble.

And I want to add. When I write that I dont care about the thoughts of others, I am not saying that I dont care about people. I am just sort of saying that I have a limited capacity to guess the thoughts of others and instinctively I am more focused on details, that are in front of me momentarily.. that I dont remember to try and predict others thoughts.

Would you also say that the ability to instinctively focus on thoughts rather than physical details is proportional to the level of interest in the characters? I don't think failing this test proves lack of theory of mind. It only proves a lack of engagement with the characters. I'd be willing to bet that if there was some kind of back story explaining how important the marble is to Sally the test would be easier to pass.


I dont know. I had a sort of interest in the characters but it was more stuff like Annes hair colour and Sallys dress, not so much their thoughts.
But mostly it was the marble and the box and the basket I thought about. I did feel sorry for Sally in the last frame because she didnt know where her marble was.



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25 Jan 2009, 3:37 pm

Sally is a little bit overweight and might have thrown her back out of alignment putting the ball in the basket in the first place. Sally doesn't look for the ball at all.


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MegaAndy
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25 Jan 2009, 5:27 pm

aha the sally-anne test to test theory of mind skills :wink:
its really wierd that im learning psychology and learning of ways they diagnose aspergers when i must have done this test myself (and i suppose i would of failed them too)
what is interesting though is that the study im learning says that the dude doing it does not beleive this is a good way for diagnosing aspergers in adults, this makes sense to me because i don't fail the test now.



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25 Jan 2009, 9:35 pm

How about this:

Sally and Anne are competing for a grade on a test at the end of the week. Naughty Anne (whom I love for being naughty), decides that she needs to disorientate Sally and find her weakest point. Anne deceptively moves Sally's marble while Sally is off studying in another room. Sally doesn't even think to look for her marble, and foils Anne's plan to disorientate her. Anne can't waste any time before the test, and needs to study, but Sally won't leave the room so she has to leave the marble in her box. Anne's mother calls for her to come home, and she has to take the marble in the box home with her. Sally pretends the marble is napping for the rest of the night and doesn't want to disturb it, so it's disappearance goes unnoticed. The next morning, Anne and Sally wake for school, and later see each other in class. The marble that Anne has now stolen, gave Anne a horrible guilt complex, and she has lost hours of sleep over taking it from her friend and not telling truth. Anne looks like hell. Sally, snickers about Anne's dishevelled appearance and takes the opportunity to talk to Anne's crush at lunch. Anne is lugging around her box all day, carrying Sally's marble inside it. Anne sees Sally trying to put the moves on her man.... What does Anne do with the marble inside the box?



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26 Jan 2009, 7:09 am

Tantybi wrote:
AnnePande wrote:
And then the problem is, there could be different suggestions what Sally could feel about it. Even an NT could guess wrong.

It's also a question about whether you'd know Sally personally or not. Human beings are not machines that react or feel the same way if only a specific thing is done to them.
It could also depend on Sally's actual mood that day, or what else she had experienced that day.
Maybe she actually wouldn't mind because she would think, aw, the ball isn't very important just now anyway.
See, that would be Theory of Mind, if you took the different possibilities into consideration... or how...? (Maybe that would be a "thinking out of the box" thing, really?)

Even NTs can't predict a person's reactions all the time. And they ought definitely not to give us the impression that they can!
Like they shouldn't give us the impression that they are able to feel the exact same feeling as the person they empathize with. Or that they can put themselves in "others'" shoes without specifying which "others" - it's definitely not "every person" they mean; mere experience shows that!
Why not just admit that? It's a human thing.

And what they also forget to say is that it's possible to practice empathy, and that NTs can need that too. So it's not just a black-and-white issue of "having" or "lacking".


That wouldn't be the purpose of the test as I would see it with the better question of how Sally feels (almost put fields, funny huh). It would be to see which character jumps up in your mind that you relate to most and how. Like if the patient responded with, I feel sorry for Sally because that was mean for Anne to move her ball for no reason...well then we might have an Aspie on our hands. An NT might respond with something more like Sally is just surprised that the ball is gone. It wouldn't be about reading a fictional character as much as projecting how you would feel if this happened to you.


Yeah, maybe that's right.



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26 Jan 2009, 8:53 am

marshall wrote:
Okay here's the true correct answer:

In the first frame Sally notices that mischievous smirk on Anne's face and suspects that Anne might try to move her ball when she leaves the room. When Sally returns she notices that the blanket over her basket has been disturbed compared to how it looked when she left the room. Anne must have been up to something! Therefore Sally will look for her ball in Anne's box. :P

Actually, most NTs don't pay that much attention to detail. I pay enough attention that I will place something I move in almost the exact same spot.