A mathematically generalized definition of rape

Page 5 of 7 [ 101 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

29 Jul 2010, 10:10 pm

OP: Er, no, you're a fruitloop.



Seanmw
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Jul 2009
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,639
Location: Bremerton, WA

29 Jul 2010, 10:15 pm

in any case, i think the OP was using the term "rape" figuratively.

like how i might say, "Golly Gee Willickers, the cost of things sure has gone up alot these days. Just the cost of that movie ticket last night alone has positively raped my wallet." :o


_________________
+Blog: http://itsdeeperthanyouknow.blogspot.com/
+"Beneath all chaos lies perfect order"


Horus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,302
Location: A rock in the milky way

29 Jul 2010, 10:18 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Horus wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
barney wrote:
Consider the child whose brain is weakened by the mother smoking while she was pregnant or the sudden infant death. Most of us have known soneonen who was a non smoker who died from cancer or heart disease they got from living or working with a smoker. A diagnosis of terminal cancer must be comparable to being raped especially when the cancer was not necessary.

I also refuse to let corporations off the hook when they do things like Nestles did that killed nearly one million infants in third world countries with their infant formula for which they knew the mothers did not have the money for proper equipment to steralize bottles and the commercial replacement for natural breast feeding was not even necessary.

Parents have to protect their children because some corporations are at war against parental authority in such matters as trashy food and tobacco products. Consider the candy fruit flavours in snuff and little cigarettes that are designed to be sold to children.


No, it is not comparable to rape.

I'm guessing you've never been raped or had a candid conversation with someone that has.



So are you saying that those responsible for the "Nestles incident" barney described are somehow morally superior to rapists???

I think the bolded part is what barney was implying when he compared certain groups and individuals to rapists.


Not at all. They're still repugnant. It doesn't make it rape.




No it doesn't....comparing rapists to those responsible for things like this is like comparing apples to oranges.


But I wasn't attempting to make an apples to oranges here.



What I was saying is that I don't view rapists as morally superior or inferior to
capitalist predators who cause significant harm to others for profit.



Last edited by Horus on 29 Jul 2010, 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jdcnosse
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Jun 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 617
Location: Phoenix

29 Jul 2010, 10:19 pm

Seanmw wrote:
in any case, i think the OP was using the term "rape" figuratively.

like how i might say, "Golly Gee Willickers, the cost of things sure has gone up alot these days. Just the cost of that movie ticket last night alone has positively raped my wallet." :o


I sort of agree with you. I guess I'm a little more sensitive to the subject as I am intimate with someone who was sexually abused...



TeaEarlGreyHot
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jul 2010
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 28,982
Location: California

29 Jul 2010, 10:24 pm

Horus wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Horus wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
barney wrote:
Consider the child whose brain is weakened by the mother smoking while she was pregnant or the sudden infant death. Most of us have known soneonen who was a non smoker who died from cancer or heart disease they got from living or working with a smoker. A diagnosis of terminal cancer must be comparable to being raped especially when the cancer was not necessary.

I also refuse to let corporations off the hook when they do things like Nestles did that killed nearly one million infants in third world countries with their infant formula for which they knew the mothers did not have the money for proper equipment to steralize bottles and the commercial replacement for natural breast feeding was not even necessary.

Parents have to protect their children because some corporations are at war against parental authority in such matters as trashy food and tobacco products. Consider the candy fruit flavours in snuff and little cigarettes that are designed to be sold to children.


No, it is not comparable to rape.

I'm guessing you've never been raped or had a candid conversation with someone that has.



So are you saying that those responsible for the "Nestles incident" barney described are somehow morally superior to rapists???

I think the bolded part is what barney was implying when he compared certain groups and individuals to rapists.


Not at all. They're still repugnant. It doesn't make it rape.




No it doesn't....comparing rapists to those responsible for things like this is like comparing apples to oranges.


But I wasn't attempting to make an apples to oranges here.



What I was saying is that I don't view rapists as morally superior or inferior to
capitalist predators who cause significant harm to others for profit.


Now this I can agree with.


_________________
Still looking for that blue jean baby queen, prettiest girl I've ever seen.


Horus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,302
Location: A rock in the milky way

29 Jul 2010, 10:30 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Horus wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Horus wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
barney wrote:
Consider the child whose brain is weakened by the mother smoking while she was pregnant or the sudden infant death. Most of us have known soneonen who was a non smoker who died from cancer or heart disease they got from living or working with a smoker. A diagnosis of terminal cancer must be comparable to being raped especially when the cancer was not necessary.

I also refuse to let corporations off the hook when they do things like Nestles did that killed nearly one million infants in third world countries with their infant formula for which they knew the mothers did not have the money for proper equipment to steralize bottles and the commercial replacement for natural breast feeding was not even necessary.

Parents have to protect their children because some corporations are at war against parental authority in such matters as trashy food and tobacco products. Consider the candy fruit flavours in snuff and little cigarettes that are designed to be sold to children.


No, it is not comparable to rape.

I'm guessing you've never been raped or had a candid conversation with someone that has.



So are you saying that those responsible for the "Nestles incident" barney described are somehow morally superior to rapists???

I think the bolded part is what barney was implying when he compared certain groups and individuals to rapists.


Not at all. They're still repugnant. It doesn't make it rape.




No it doesn't....comparing rapists to those responsible for things like this is like comparing apples to oranges.


But I wasn't attempting to make an apples to oranges here.



What I was saying is that I don't view rapists as morally superior or inferior to
capitalist predators who cause significant harm to others for profit.


Now this I can agree with.




This was all I was trying to say from the beginning.



Sorry if it took me all this time to clarify. :oops:



TeaEarlGreyHot
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jul 2010
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 28,982
Location: California

29 Jul 2010, 10:40 pm

It's okay, Horus. The misunderstanding could have been on my end too. LOL


_________________
Still looking for that blue jean baby queen, prettiest girl I've ever seen.


Mysty
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,762

29 Jul 2010, 10:57 pm

Seanmw wrote:
in any case, i think the OP was using the term "rape" figuratively.

like how i might say, "Golly Gee Willickers, the cost of things sure has gone up alot these days. Just the cost of that movie ticket last night alone has positively raped my wallet." :o


No, go back and read the post. The OP specifically talks about rape of the sexual kind.


_________________
not aspie, not NT, somewhere in between
Aspie Quiz: 110 Aspie, 103 Neurotypical.
Used to be more autistic than I am now.


barney
Hummingbird
Hummingbird

User avatar

Joined: 13 May 2010
Age: 79
Gender: Male
Posts: 19
Location: Houston, DE 10054

30 Jul 2010, 6:43 am

I am not interested in which is worse because I am not willing to accept either one of them. The infant who dies of SIDS, which the medical community estimates maternal smoking causes half of these preventable deaths, wanted to live just like the victim who was sexually assaulted and murdered. I do not care which death was worse because it is wrong to kill the innocent. (I am not denying the right to use lethal force in self defemse.) Sexual rape is concentrated and dramaticly terrible. But forcing factory workers who can't just go find another job to breathe cigarette smoke day after day for years can and often does inflict diseases in which the death bed is a violent torture chamber with the cancer slowly mutilating the victim who takes months to die. We could compare a fast get it over with rape murder and debate which is worse, but I ask that we not make such considerations because that threatens to give one kind of violator or murderer credit for being better than another.

In the case of fetal alcahol syndrome, a child is born forever damned to a life of innecessary mental retardation and all that goes with it. I do not know whether that is less violent than any given sexual molestation of that child and I do not care because I want that selfish mother who thinks she has a right to do such a viciously selfish thing just because the law gives her permission to be put in the same category as a sex offender.

We have to place boundaries on bodily integrity and give a yes or no answer to crossing those boundaries whether the trespass is slow cancer causing cigarette smoke that contaminates too many public places or whether the violation is sexual and I think I made a mistake in accidentally starting a debate on which kind of violation is worse. The answer is not which crime is worse but that none of these violations should ever be tolerated.

There are people who starve themselves to death with anorexia and I think seeing everyone around them growing fat terrifies them into purging and starving. They are tragically mistakened to react the way they do to their understandable terror of having pop culture's alien fat installed in their bodies because there are ways to exercise and eat that are healthy. If the neglegent parent chooses to feed her child McDonald's or Hardees or all the disgusting bad foods large corporations market so aggressively, I hold both the parent and the corporations who are more than accomplices to the crime responsible. The child was too young to decide he or she does not want to be obese. That child's body has been violated and that is not tolerable.



takemitsu
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 601

30 Jul 2010, 12:58 pm

Image



TeaEarlGreyHot
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jul 2010
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 28,982
Location: California

30 Jul 2010, 1:02 pm

You can keep arguing your point, barney. Alcohol consumption during pregnancy is bad, but it is not rape. Nor is smoking around your children.


_________________
Still looking for that blue jean baby queen, prettiest girl I've ever seen.


barney
Hummingbird
Hummingbird

User avatar

Joined: 13 May 2010
Age: 79
Gender: Male
Posts: 19
Location: Houston, DE 10054

30 Jul 2010, 1:54 pm

I am not interested in trying to figure out whether a type of rape with less violence than another type of rape is worse than slowly poisoning a prisoner by forcing him to live in a cell full of tobacco smoke till he dies of cadriovascular disease or his body is mutilated by cancer is worse than having to grow up in a house full of cigarette smoke. Nor am I willing to introduce the invasion a child experiences when introduced to sexual practices that deny the child time to grow up and learn what he or she has a right to know and be able to make his or her own informed free choice with another consenting adult, e.g. marriage or bethrothel into the comparison. People have committed suicide over being obese so one would have to consider the individual victim and what is most traumatic if one wanted to rank violations, but again I doubt the value of attempting to evaluate which in a list of evils is worse. That is why I will defend myself against someone trying to force cigarette smoke into my body as violently as I will someone trying to force his sex organs into my body. Being willing to accept cigarette smoke in an effort to be coourteous makes me feel like a dirty whore as much as being expected to perform a sexual message on an employer in an attempt to beat the competition in trying to win that high paying job, but that's just me and I do not expect everyone to be the same or like me.

My intent is to introduce an intolerance for all these things because they are evil and I do not care which is more evil than which. I hope that adds understanding to this discussion that became more heated than I had intended it to become (not that I would ever question peoples' rights to express themselves freely and candidly as I value the honesty of candor above all else upon the matter.)



TeaEarlGreyHot
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jul 2010
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 28,982
Location: California

30 Jul 2010, 2:16 pm

You don't need to equate any of it to sexual assault to show that these things are wrong and shouldn't be happening.


_________________
Still looking for that blue jean baby queen, prettiest girl I've ever seen.


Horus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,302
Location: A rock in the milky way

30 Jul 2010, 2:45 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
You don't need to equate any of it to sexual assault to show that these things are wrong and shouldn't be happening.




He didn't NEED to, but I think his original point is essentially that defacto rape IS comparable IN A SIGNIFICANT SENSE to many other aforementioned (among others not mentioned) violations of one's body, freedom and overall well-being.

That point was made clear (to me, at least) in the following sentences from his OP.



"It is the same with rape, you do not have to involve sex organs to commit rape any more than you have to have mass to have momentum. All you have to have is the rapist violating the intimacy of the victim's body solely for selfish physical pleasure and domination".


The word "rape" is clearly being pressed into service as a figurative term here.




Beyond this and this alone...comparing rape to any of the other anti-social actions mentioned would be a pointless apples/oranges comparison.


Much akin to comparing a Lamborghini to a Rolls Royce.



AnonymissMadchen
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 51
Location: Fredericksburg

30 Jul 2010, 3:08 pm

I've been raped. Trying to say that smoking in public is rape is sick in ways that good words can't be used to describe.


_________________
Aly


TeaEarlGreyHot
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jul 2010
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 28,982
Location: California

30 Jul 2010, 3:11 pm

AnonymissMadchen wrote:
I've been raped. Trying to say that smoking in public is rape is sick in ways that good words can't be used to describe.


Thank you!


_________________
Still looking for that blue jean baby queen, prettiest girl I've ever seen.