AUTISM, and religion

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I used to be rather Christian (first, the Catholicism I was raised in, then I was a Quaker). Now I'm an agnostic leaning strongly towards atheist. I just don't really believe in God. It's nothing more complex than that. I realised I was just trying to force myself to believe stuff that I didn't - which defeats the whole point of it, especially with a religion like Christianity. Christianity, more than many religions, is more about what you believe than what you do. I know Christ stressed the importance of works, but works don't save your soul, which is the whole point of Christianity. I don't believe I have a soul, never mind one that needs saving.

I like to have a moral code and a philosophy to live by, so I've tried Buddhism. I've realised as I've grown older that religions are pretty either/or and you have to go for it whole. My sceptical tendencies prevent me from doing that. I can't even really be a Buddhist, because that requires more faith in Buddha's teachings than I have.

I don't believe in anything supernatural, but I use the philosophical teachings of religions as a rough guide to help me live my life, and give me something to think about. That's probably an insulting approach to anyone who takes those religions seriously, but it's really my business.

Well how else should we interpret God ordering his people to attack the "unbelievers" or whatever, and to kill innocent pregnant women and children? How can having a better understanding possibly make that ok.

Also, just because people may not have had the same morals as us does not make it ok. I mean, slavery was considered normal in those days, yet now we consider it immoral. But Jesus, who was supposed to be "Love", condoned it! You would imagine that Jesus, as God, would have a bit more sense. Surely he should have opposed it no matter what the people of the time thought.

As for the OT God, Jesus and God are supposed to be one and the same so any arguments against the OT God would apply to Jesus. Although I can see how there would be some confusion because, despite apparently being the same person, they're both completely different. The OT God is basically an evil tyrant while Jesus preached love and forgiveness (to an extent).

Let's not forget that as well as being his son, god and Jesus were also the same person! So he died so that he could save us from himself... :/. If he's omnipotent then why not alter reality to save people, or just not send them to hell...

You all seem to be forgetting the FACT that the god of the bible is the ONLY one to offer saving us for our sins. if you want proof he is real, just read the bible duh. if you dont want to be christian, you should at least be spiritual, to ignore the reality of a creator, you simply lead an empty existance. how can the world be created if there is no creator???

That is some crazy, crazy nonsense. What "facts" lead you to the thought that only the bible can save us from sins? Second, I HAVE read the entire bible. I found it to be completely lacking a loving god, let alone a god that makes any sense.

It's also a bit insulting to say that those of us who are atheist and don't believe in souls and spirits are leading an "empty existence" is not only insulting, it's also extremely arrogant of you. The belief in god or souls or spirits has nothing to do with how I lead my life. I wasn't "created", my parents had sex, which led to some biology work going on inside my mother, which eventually led to me.

And before you jump to the whole "it takes more belief to accept evolution than to believe in god" is complete nonsense. Have you read the creation story? That takes a lot to accept, a whole lot more than learning about evolution and accepting that as a valid scientific theory.

You haven't exactly given me any reason to accept your god, other than threats of going to hell, and frankly if people like you and other ignorant people are going to heaven I would rather be in hell.

I'm starting to feel the divine presence of bright-eyed Athena watching me.

Well just because the Bible says something doesn't make it true. They don't even know who most of the authors really were (somehow Moses, who supposedly wrote the 1st 5 books of the OT, managed to write about his own death...).

The world was created through physics, life through chemistry and ourselves through biology. Life has the meaning that we choose to give it.

Isnt the bible evil?

http://www.evilbible.com/

Oh I might as well hop onto the flame-train now :/

Honestly Both Theists and Atheists need to shut the f**k up and learn to f*****g respect the rights of people to believe whatever the f**k they want IN PEACE. I am so f*****g sick of seeing damn christians saying all Atheists are a bunch of idiots, and I am even more sick of the atheists branding everyone who even has an inkling of belief in religion and whatnot as a bunch of loonies. Really, both arguments are variants of the same f*****g thing. Really.

But yeah, its human f*****g nature to f*****g attack all that you dont agree with, so everyone who is doing it just justified my position of wiping out all of humanity even more. WHY THE f**k SHOULD PEOPLE LIVE IF THEY CANT f*****g ACCEPT EVERYONE'S DIFFERENCES AND GET THE f**k ALONG AND NOT BE AN a**hole AND SAY s**t ABOUT PEOPLE WHO HAVE DIFFERENT VIEWS THAN YOU?!

Really, anyone who argues either god damn side sounds like an infant crying for a diaper change.

gonna whine about people not following your f*****g view? OH WAH, GROW UP. This is the real reason why humanity never progressed beyond barbarism. People cant just f*****g say "I DON'T KNOW, Grey areas exist."


Yeah, so what if my rant is profanity ridden. This is what happens when I get sick of stupidity on both sides of an argument. Hope someone closes the thread before it degenerates further.

God bless you and your righteous anger

I know, I just got sick of all the negativity from both sides.

Love is MY Religion

Lyrics Love Is My Religion
by Ziggy MarleyLove is my religion, Love is my religion, Love is my religion
I'll take you to the temple tonight

All my days I've been searching, to find out what this life is worth
through the books and bibles of time I've made up my mind
I don't condemn, I don't convert, this is a calling have you heard
bring all the lovers to the fold, cause no one is gonna lose their soul

Love is my religion, Love is my religion, Love is my religion
hey you can take it or leave it, and you don't have to believe it

I don't want to fight, hey let's go fly a kite
there's nothing that we can't cure, and I'll keep you in my arms for sure
so don't let nobody stop us, free spirits have to soar
with you I share the gift, the gift that we now know oh oh oh

( Chorus )

Well I'm done searching now, I found out what this life is worth
not in the books that I find, but by searching my mind
I don't condemn, I don't convert
this is the calling have you heard, bring all the lovers to the fold
no one is gonna lose their soul

The bible doesn't prove god is real any more than the Lord of the Rings proves that Gandalf is real. It's just a really old book written by primitive tribal people who were struggling to understand the world around them. A book which was then warped, manipulated, re-written and re-interpreted over hundreds of years. Seriously, check out some of the Nag Hammadi texts. There are lots of old books to read, no need to narrow yourself down to just the one and the truth of the bible is far more interesting than the 'Truth' of it. Narrowing your thinking does not broaden the mind, it just feels like it does.

Er, over-react much?

I don't think anyone was flaming each other, we were just engaging in debate. If everyone just agreed with each other then how would we ever come to the truth? Surely debate is one way of discovering that truth? Obviously in debate you have to attack the other persons argument, which is what we were doing, not attacking the person themselves.

pretty decent video of Gods love for those of you interested. if not thats fine Im not here to cram anything down anyones throat, thats not what God wants people to do to eachother. You are entitled to your own views and opinions, even as a Christian I know God gave us free will. I dont have to follow him at all, but its my choice to do so. and I will respect others chioces to, as it is not my place to set judgement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBbvRmtbsqc

Excuse me, but how do you defend an "all-knowing, all-powerful god" who murders innocent children and tells us to stone people to death merely for having consensual sex? He also tells us to rip out the tongues of children who talk back to their parents.

I'm sorry - all of that is barbaric and completely unacceptable no matter what century you're talking about.



Actually, no. Christianity almost completely ignores WWJD ("What would Jesus do?") and instead is largely based on the Old Testament. Because you can't build an authoritarian organized religion on Jesus's teachings. We know what Jesus would do - he spelled it out very clearly in the gospels: disown your family, don't get married, never have sex, discard all your worldly belongings, become homeless, wander around preaching "the good news" that the world is about to end, and never, ever engage in any kind of violence, even in self-defense. If someone hits you, invite him to hit you again. If someone steals your coat, give him your shirt, etc. This is all straight from Jesus's mouth, if we are to believe the gospels. How can you build an authoritarian religion based on that?

Christianity, instead of encouraging people to behave as Jesus did, reduces Jesus to an idol to be feared and worshiped. Christianity is all about the Old Testament values - "pro-family", anti-sex, anti-gay, us vs. them (intolerant of all other religions), authoritarian, dogmatic, judgmental, etc. That's why you always hear of Christians trying to post the 10 Commandments in state and federal legislatures, courthouses, schools, etc. That's why they are outraged by the notion of equal rights for gay people. That's why they hate "pagans", atheists and all other religious groups.