Speaking up against anti-vacciners

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Pretty sure I'm very uncool, and I'm smart enough to know I'm pretty dumb in the greater scheme of things, but also smart enough not to let other people do my thinking for me or accept 'it totally happened to a friend of mine so it must be 100% true everywhere' as valid arguments on major issues. So I thank you for making sure to include that what you say applies to ALL of us here, I assure you I return your sentiment in my view towards you in the same manner yours was intended to us.

What proof? Doctors aren't saying that, not the ones who actually believe in oh, say, doing real science and not falsifying your evidence so get the results you want for the drug you're making. Hm, who was it again who did that? Wake something, Wakefield? You realize that the rise in autism that to you people is clearly from vaccines has also gone up by the same amount in nations that never used thimerosal in vaccines, ones that didn't use 'poisons'? Wait, let me get it right 'POISONS'. Or is that one of those inconvenient things you just want to ... what's your phrase again? "stick your fingers in your ears and say LALALALALA"? I'd understand that, it's so annoying when these tiny details get in the way.

I mean my country didn't use thimerosal at all, we were way behind on the development curve so had less 'POISONS' in pretty much everything. Yet I, who grew up in an environment similar to all of you, turned out exactly like my father and his father. And they were men who grew up in houses that were made of mud with wooden lining (because wood was too expensive to spend on anything other than lining the interior) in a time when the first cars were arriving in the country. Yes, mud. I guess all those poisons in the mud must have made them autistic right? Or maybe it was all the poison in their largely pre-industrial environment? Oh, I know, it was the processed food with poisons that they ate that came from the farm they lived on. Hey, you can't say I'm wrong, because it totally did happen to people I knew so it must be true. Or do different rules apply to me than to you because, I dunno, something that makes my anecdotal evidence invalid and your anecdotal evidence truth?

This is what bugs, that people are so convinced that this must be true, so they never look at it to think well, what else has changed besides vaccines? Why should they? They found their truth and who cares if a bunch of snotty scientists just start laughing when their proof is presented as such? So it's not that diagnostics have changed at all, it's not that misdiagnosis was more common in the past and certainly the notion that environment (by which I mean social environment and not "toxic posions!! being fed to our chillins by Big Brother Pharma!!) could play a part is absurd. Heck, there's no reason to even keep looking for other possible causes, after all, we know it's the vaccine, and we know that because we know it's the vaccine.

You found your answer and want to worship it, great, that's your right. Please have the decency not to drag real science into it when all independent studies show no links and the main idol of the movement has been discredited due to being a falsifying douchebag who was trying to get rich from lying.

Btw, you may have noticed (or not) I didn't mention anything about autistic pride in here. Because it's irrelevant to the discussion of vaccines. I have highly conflicting emotions about the idea of autistic pride, it's an emotional issue largely about perception, self-image, societal worth and societal values and a complex issue at that. It's not something you can prove with a series of tests because it's not that kind of issue. Unlike causal links between vaccines and autism. Not that that stops people from treating the two as similar, and in this thread, as the same damn thing. Personally, I have no interest in treating two separate issues as being the same thing, that's why you won't see my views on whether autism is a hindrance or boon here. I don't care whether people like strawberries or hate them, but claiming strawberries are bright blue is simply ignoring reality.

One must also acknowledge that toxicity is likely touted by the pro-vaccine crowd on the perspective of individual dosage.

Many toxic substances (especially heavy metals) have a CUMULATIVE effect. Absent some form of therapy to purge the substance from the body, it builds up with each dosage. Infants are being given aggressive amounts of vaccinations where back in my day you got your vaccinations later and over a longer period of time. Hence, we should look at the risk of these additives on the scale of all the vaccinations they want to give and consider how developed a child is at the time this stuff is being injected into the body.

An infant will be more readily impacted by a toxin than a young child. Smaller body mass, still developing major systems in the body compared to a child who is more in to a growth stage as compared to development.

Even flu vaccinations can be dangerous. Some of the preservatives in those are reported to increase your risk of Alzheimer's disease by up to 10% every time you get a flu shot. You would be appalled at the stuff they've documented being found in vaccinations that have no logical purpose when you consider a vaccination should be a pure product.

zer0, I'm really wondering where you're getting your information from. Would you mind linking us to the studies and sites you're using?

this anti-vaccine conspiracy movement is not only wrong, but dangerous.

many people are refusing to get vaccines for themselves and their children, risking their lives, because of this.

Uhh... the "buildup" you're talking about doesn't happen at non-toxic doses, by definition.

Okay, so you ingest a harmful substance. Your body is made to deal with four units of it per day. If you ingest ten units, your body can deal with four units today, four tomorrow, and the last three the day after that. The problem with long-term exposure is that you are taking in more than four units per day. Say you are eating fish from a mercury-contaminated bay every day, and taking in five units of mercury. Your body deals with four every day; but that last unit is over the capacity and hangs around, until it gets to toxic levels--say, a hundred units--and you get the symptoms of mercury poisoning.

With vaccines, the "buildup" is not there because the dose is way below what would cause that "overflow" effect.

I dont buy this theory.

http://commons.ucalgary.ca/mercury/

One such piece. Just Google on the dangers of vaccinations and you'll be flooded with sources of people exposing stuff that's going on but the mainstream press won't talk about.

More so, cumulative means it builds up over time. That, and the EPA standards do not mean the levels are safe for infants. As much money is involved here and how the FDA is manipulated by money and politics, we've have many cases of the the books being "cooked" to get FDA approval for lots of stuff that gets pulled after thousands of people are harmed by the product.

I get a kick out of this ...

$75,000 Vaccine Offer to U.S. Licensed Medical Doctors

http://www.alkalizeforhealth.net/Lvaccineadditives.htm

Um... I don't know if you guys are maybe having trouble communicating, or I'm having trouble understsanding; but I can't really see any reason why you are disagreeing. I try to explain my opinion but I don't get any reason why you believe what you believe--just "I don't think so," and no reason. I'm confused. People should have reasons for what they think.

I don't think vaccines cause autism. I do believe, when administered with respect for the capabilities of a toddlers immune system, that vaccines do more good than harm.

But I also believe that there may be many many children being incorrectly diagnosed as autistic when they are actually suffering from some other condition because of overly agressive vaccination schedules. Some kids are getting 6 or more vaccines in a single sitting. What human immune system is infected with that many pathogens at once? I think there needs to be alot more research into both the diagnosis of autism being routinely ascribed to children exhibiting these 'after vaccine' symptoms and into the effect of not only the indivdual vaccines but also the effect of dosing toddlers with so many at once. There has been no research to date into the safety or possible effects of dosing humans with so many vaccines in a single sitting. I find that disturbing.

It has been suggested that this 'outbreak' of autism may be an autoimmune response. But it's not autism. Autism is for life. Or, at least until we can figure out how to rewire the human brain. In the meantime, staying alive by NOT dying of measles, small pox and polio would be a good idea.

Well, as far as I can tell, your immune system gets more of a workout from the normal everyday exposure to various pathogens than it does from vaccines. There are so many different species of viruses and bacteria in the outside world that little kids have to be able to handle multiple ones at once--most of which never cause illness. The average kid is exposed to many more microorganisms in his normal daily life than he'll ever get from vaccines.

There is one problem related to exposure to pathogens; but it's the opposite problem: Kids who grow up in environments which are heavily sanitized and are not regularly exposed to pathogens tend to have immune systems turn on themselves in the form of allergies. So far, the only things I've found were correlations--kids who grow up with little exposure to pathogens tend to have more allergies; no cause-and-effect known either way--but the mechanism of an immune system attacking non-pathogens is well-known as a cause for allergies. Exposure to viruses and bacteria seems to be something we're well-adapted for.

Speaking of allergies, though: I do agree that allergy screenings need to be done before vaccinating with substances that might trigger an allergy. A child with an allergy to chicken eggs can have a severe reaction--all the way from hives to outright anaphylactic shock--if he's given a vaccine that's made with chicken eggs. It's important to make sure those allergies don't exist beforehand. Doctors should know what is in their vaccines, and where to get alternatives without the potential allergen, before administering them to children. Allergy questionnaires are already routinely given before vaccinations; but in some cases, when an allergy is not known, allergic reactions still do occur. If it were up to me, I would recommend that any child with a known allergy of any sort receiving a vaccination which has ingredients which are potential allergens should stay in the doctor's office for observation for half an hour after the vaccination.