AS/HFA: The difference

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danlo, I sent an email to my psychologist after much deliberation, and in her reply it turns out you are absolutely correct.

I was not only tested against Autistic disorders but Asperger's criteria too. There are slight differences she wrote, I can PM you about them if you like, I am a bit mixed up at the moment.
I either didn't listen when she explained the diagnostic process, or just plain forgot. But I know there are categories within each criteria that get added up to see which diagnosis is more appropriate.

I agree, the question, "How are you?" is one of the worst I can think of. There are limitless answers for the multitude of feelings running through your head at any one time. Even to answer a simple greeting is hard, I'll stick with one, but inevitably it will start to feel uncomfortable and I will have to think of another. That's when I go through the stage of saying, "Er, uh", whenever anyone says hello to me.

Traineeship? Cool.

When I was younger, and questioned with "How are you?", I used to invariably respond with "I dunno." (which perplexed everyone... I mean how can I not know how I am? Silly Josh...).

I really had next to no idea exactly what "How are you?" meant... To me How related to inner workings, construction of stuff etc etc... How am I? It was almost non-sensical...

Of course I have since learnt it's meaning, and now answer the question varying from I'm good, to I'm ok. Depending on my mood at the time... If on the rare occasion I wish to discuss something I might respond accordingly to the How are you question....


GA wonders if this is even on topic...

I usually say "fine" if I don't want to have to think about it for many hours about "How I am". Though sometimes I answer "fine" automatically and then I suddenly remember that I'm not fine and then I correct myself and say "Well, that's not really true. I lied." and then I can describe an event (which is easier to describe than emotion) about what made me "not fine" that day.

Or sometimes I will answer humorously "cold," "hot," "tired," etc. Those are all much easier. Or I will describe some other event which happened during the day which plays into my mood, good or bad without ever answering HOW I'm feeling. I'm better at WHY.

"Doing okay." "Fine." "Oh, I'm alright." And my favorite to throw back at people which gets me out of answering honestly: "That's a pretty heavy question to lay on a person at this time of day." That always gets a chuckle. And so my answer is pleasantly avoided, because after the laugh they've forgotten that I never answered.

Of course, it's just a general greeting. Most people don't really want to know. It's just polite. It's like dogs smelling each other's butts. How pleasant can that be?

Yeah, when people ask you "How are you?" they don't really care what you answer (unless it's a negative response, in which they'll add further enquiries).

This might help....

STANDARD ENGLISH
A: "Hello,"
B: "Hi,
A: "How are you today?"
B: "I'm good, you?"
A: "I'm also good thanks. So what have you been up to lately?"
B: "Not much really, went to my parents for a Sunday roast, that was an experience, you know how my parents can get."
CONVERSATION CONTINUES

TRANSLATION
A: "I see you, I send my greetings.
B: "I see you too, I reply to you greetings."
A: "I wish to have a conversation, send standard conversation starting question"
B: "I accept your request, send standard conversation starting reply, add return question."
A: "Answer return question, enquire as to your recent events of interest."
B: "Reply to enquiry of recent events of interest, with a recent event of interest."
CONVERSATION CONTINUES

Lol, I love that translation. Maybe you could write a whole book like that for aspies?

That'd be cool

Unfortunatley, I don't know all the translations, so I'll probably need a learn'd NT to assist me hehe

GA

That's like The Thing in Terry Pratchett's Bromeliad trilogy. The Thing is a computer which understands human conversation tactics 'Hello, how are you?' etc. as translating to 'I'm alive and so are you.'

Your mother was a far more better mother than mine Danlo. I'm being honest about that.

My mother never used intervention methods or even tried to help me developmentally when I was young. I was slated to go to early intervention programs run by the Tranvcore centre in Melbourne, but my parents spilt up and I moved with my mother to Tasmania.

To be frank, I do not think she had much concern and love for me, or was able to express it. Maybe the difference is that your mother is NT and mine is very likely an Aspie and a quite self-asorbed one at that.

I did go to special playgroups and schools, I do not know if they knew much about High Functioning Autism or if they used intervention techniques that worked..

I could have used the sort of methods that your mother used Danlo. I really academically struggled throughout my primary school and even my high school years. My mother turned a blind eye to the problems I was having with interacting with others. My social naiveity made me do actions I'm deeply ashamed of today and contributed to my severe bullying.

Even now I still live through the effects of lack of actions my mother did.
For example my writing and spelling are pretty bad and I have a whole set of various mental issues, which I doubt can be overcome, maybe they can be.

Is it possible to have HF Kanners,without having had language delay (but some life long language difficulty) ?
I have never felt I fit the AS diagnosis at all-neither do relatives,the HFK descriptions are what I experience apart from language delay,even if some aren't diagnostic traits.

Yes, it is possible to get an ASD diagnosis without a speech delay. The communication criteria have several ways you can meet it. Only one is a speech delay; another is inability to initiate and sustain conversation (ironically, something most AS have); stereotyped and repetitive use of language or idiosyncratic language; and, lack of varied, spontaneous make-believe play or social imitative play. It's really quite a varied criteria, that generally, everyone on the criteria meets one or another. It's stupid.

Cheers Danlo!

Why is the speech delay always said to be the most important trait to being diagnosed with HFKanners?

The speech delay is made into such a big deal, because the Aspergers' criteria state that if you have a speech delay, you cannot be diagnosed with Aspergers. Hence if there is a speech delay, you have to be dx'd with Autistic Disorder rather than AS. Personally, though, I think the speech delay is the most important of the communication criteria for other reasons. One or another of the other 3 criteria is met by most Aspergers people. They aren't criteria that separate AS from Autistic Disorder at all. It is only because of discrepancies in diagnosing psychologists that they aren't given the Autistic Disorder dx. The communication criteria are socially based, rather than solely language development based. Of the 4 criteria, only the speech delay is language development based. It is my belief, and personal opinion only, that the absence of verbal language development in the early years of life, fails to fully integrate with the systems of social development. Hence, why verbal communication is often unused in a social context. I hate to use this overused metaphor, but it is reminiscient of trying to socialise in another language, when you already have well-practiced and defined patterns of socialization.

My mother did not work Danlo, I lived in a welfare dependant household when I was younger.



Good point, my mother in addition to probably being on the wrong planet, was a high school dropout (although my dad has told me she only completed primary school).



I would agree with you Danlo, I only grew up with my sister and while we had the usual sibiling problems. My sister treated me well, it helped she was 2 years younger than I am and I was pretty high functioning.

It is standard practice to diagonse people who did not have a language delay (2 years old for single words, 3 years for communicative phrases) as having Asperger's Syndrome and those with language delay as having Autisitic Disorder.

Standard, yes, but utterly wrong according to the criteria. It's only 'standard' because the AS criteria states you can't have language delay and be dx'd AS. So those who don't know the DSM-IV, will simply determine it upon the speech criteria, not the other three. You should only be diagnosed AS if you don't meet the criteria for Autistic Disorder first. Which means if you meet any of the other three communication criteria, you should really be diagnosed with Autistic Disorder.

I like that. I think I'll use it.
I really don't pay any attention to the typical greeting thing. Some people say "hi", some say "good morning", and still others say "how are you?" My reply is almost always just "hi". Most of them don't care that it's a non-answer. They just want to know I heard them. I actually ignore about 90% of what people say to me....