Honesty and why people hate it

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This is just unfair. Your environment in time and place must be the only one that matters.

Immature basically means these things:
More innocent
More honest
Less contaminated with hive mind software

The way you stated that makes it sound like perhaps you prefer the more deceitful method of lying to affect psychological manipulations.

The other possibility I see is that perhaps you're misusing the term "immature". The reason being that it is surely a fact that being skilled in the practice of lying (not making honest statements), OR making statements with the intent of causing psychological damage is one of the signs of maturity.
These are learned methods, and so a young immature child would be more lacking in these areas.

Being an a**hole is immature behavior. Xenomind was talking about people calling others weird, ret*d or stupid and I called it immaturity. That's the behavior I faced in school and I took being called weird as a compliment when I was in high school. It depends on the context of the word. As a kid, it was a bad thing and as a teen, it was a good thing so I took it as a compliment. Same as the word crazy.

I do understand the theory of all this about honesty. Some people, especially those on the spectrum, are all like ''I think lying of any sort of completely wrong, I'd rather be told the precise truth all the time'', but then when somebody does be honest then you find that upsetting. There are some things I'd rather not know and be told something different but plausible, because then the choice is down to me; I can either believe it or not believe it. If the person is smart enough to give me a plausible alteration then there's a chance that it could be true so it's nothing to spend the rest of my life dwelling over it. If of course it's something that could be found out easily by me, then I may get upset that they lied, depending on how bad the situation is. If it ain't that important and doesn't affect me much, then I'd just frown to myself and think ''they lied about that then'', and then move on.

I do know how lies work. There are all different sorts of lies, and not all lies are bad. Being a compulsive liar isn't so good, when people tell unnecessary lies and believe their own stories. Often people dislike a ''bullshitter''. But otherwise, just small lies that don't make much of a difference to the world isn't so bad. Sometimes I run into a situation where I don't have the heart to tell someone the truth. It's a bit like a friend of mine who has severe depression and paranoia, and after experiencing her strong negative feelings for almost 3 years, I can safely say that most of these issues are in her head, and that people are not watching or listening out for her but are just getting on with their own lives. I won't go all into detail about that, but I do know that she has become depressed over the months and she's just become paranoid about people watching and listening out for her, but she won't admit that she may need help. I have been there for her, but now I am started to get a bit fed up with it, because she sort of drags me into her issues and makes it look like I'm obsessively paranoid too. But I just don't have the heart to tell her that she is going a bit too far now and that she should perhaps go to the doctor or occupy her time by doing some voluntary work and meeting new people or something. I know how it feels to be depressed and it can isolate you, which is probably how she's feeling, but I admitted that I got depressed and needed help, so I went to the doctor and got prescribed anti-depressants, and I'm also seeing a counselor, and I'm regularly doing volunteering. But feeling depressed is a horrible thing, and I do know that my friend must be feeling isolated too, and so me telling her that these things are all in her head might make her feel more isolated because she might think that I don't understand. It's a complicated situation, so now I haven't seen her for a few weeks now and I have found myself making up excuses to not see her, like saying I'm going out with my boyfriend or something like that. I don't really like lying like that to a friend, but I just can't face her and tell her the truth.

Spot on. As children typical people like everyone are relatively innocent. Innocence is only undone through learning via plenty of experience. Typical people however very quickly learn to exploit lying and quickly get contaminated by what you call hive mind software, i.e. they subconsciously and intuitively establish categories of what constitutes acceptable normal behaviour (= the patterns that everyone else is following).

As soon as you don't seem to follow the normal pattern you are labelled as weird by typical children. Over time they lose their innocence. They learn that it is advantageous to them not to say you are weird to your face, but you'll be treated with comtempt, and you'll be perceived as someone who behaves unpredictably and potentially as someone who can't be trusted to comply with social norms.

In the scheme of social status hierarchies any association with a person who does not follow established social norms is viewed as a disadvantage, because such associations are not helpful in climbing the social ladder, and may even present a risk of falling off the ladder. Hence at times, as an untypical member of society, you get visible pushback on seemingly random occasions. The person pushing back on you is not signalling you, but is signalling to everyone else to that he/she is a typical member of society and not of your weird kind.

Calling them as*holes is, at the core, mirroring their behaviors of using words to place them at a certain level on a hierarchy via psychological manipulation.

I was very abused in school in this way, and at first I thought that I could really hurt other people by saying certain words to them, and that in turn it could actually make me feel better about myself. This is a conceptual way of placing yourself above another in a scale of hierarchy. Later on I realized that this doesn't really happen and is completely imaginary.
After that point, the words of others became harmless for the most part, at least on a one-on-one case. Words still have the power to affect group behaviors, which I think is very unfortunate.

Not really. Children are very violent.

I also tried to bully other kids thinking I will be liked and fit in but it didn't work either. But yet I knew an aspie online who stopped getting bullied and got friends when he turned into a bully and I told him when I tried that, it didn't work with me and he told me it was because I did it wrong and there are rules about it. They're unwritten and an ASD person doesn't typically pick this up. But that is also why normal kids bully.

Last edited by League_Girl on 23 Jul 2014, 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

Yes, they are aggressive animals, but they are relatively direct and sincere about it.
That is their innocence lies in the fact they haven't learned how to cloak this behavior yet.

Adults do the same things but their behaviors look quite different on the outside because of their learned deception techniques.

I will consider that a possibility, however, I feel that the problem was not in your performance but rather your audience.

If I see someone give respect or cool-points to another human for bullying someone, then I conclude that their brain's reasoning ability has been taken over by a mind virus. It is a sure sign of the hive mind being able to control the actions of individuals.

A bully only has power when there is an audience that is controlled by the hive mind.

It's a profoundly sick society that would reject you because you failed to bully others properly.

I agree with Olympiadis on that one.

I don't believe, however, that most NT's possess the "hive mentality." There are many individual, non-autistic eccentrics around.

They just share the same set of social instincts derived from the monkeys. Bullying is a part of it.

Hm that's an interesting theory.


There is such a thing as an insult. If a neurotypical tells you to your face that you are acting like a ret*d, they are trying to insult you, point blank. When people insult others, they are saying what they feel is true. But later on they may claim they said it "out of anger" or because they were drunk or something. An insult is intended to hurt the person, make the person doing the insulting feel superior, take out frustration, etc. This is completely different from the example I gave in my post. And it's probably not what this thread is focusing on.

If someone says "2+2=5" and I correct them and say "no, it's 4," that is not anywhere near saying "you are a ret*d!" But either way the person will get mad! So I wouldn't say anything at all.

I've gotten accused of insulting people when it was never my intent at all so you can insult someone unintentionally. Some people give me the impression about them that they like insulting people and have it be their problem because it's "honesty." I have seen that card being played enough for me to know someone people use it to be insulting. It makes me think they are emotionally abusive like my ex boyfriend was and he called it all honesty. So to see threads like this pop up, I am always skeptical because of this.

And there is nothing offensive about saying two plus two is four when you correct someone.

Many people like to butter things up and sugar coat them. When they bump into someone who tells it like it is, it throws them off course.

Of course there is nothing offensive. So you're saying you've never witnessed someone get mad at being corrected? Well that situation is the epitome of someone getting mad at honesty.

Simon Cowell on American Idol was known for being "brutally honest." He was actually a real jerk to some of the contestants. He probably did it just to be funny and garner viewers. It didn't have anything to do with honesty. Those people you speak don't care at all about honesty. Again, I don't think that's what the OP was talking about. I interpreted the thread as people who've been genuinely honest and others got upset. I learned from experience not to be honest.