Aspies with Borderline Personality Disorder?

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OK could you describe to me the physical symptoms of an asperger & how you dealt with ? thanx

On whether a person has AS or not in the first place. That is what differential diagnoses are about...give a simple analogy that is like saying that the red spots may be chickenpox - except where the patient already has measles.

Apart from which, Asperger Syndrome is something you are born with, a part of who you are (*nature*), and anxiety disorders develop after you are born, in response to environmental factors (*nurture* - which, incidentally is NOT the same thing as "parenting" we develop personalities from EVERY aspect of our environment).

There is a condition, first identified in Romanian orphans, out of the horrific communist "orphanages" that once existed, that was originally called Multi System Dysfunctional Disorder in the mid 90s, and has been redefined several times since under the umbrella of several different "attachment disorders", that mimicked many of the symptoms associated with all forms of Autism (depending on the level of functionality) except that there was almost invariably intellectual retardation that certainly does not typify autism.



If you start from the very first posts on these boards and keep reading until you have read them all you will have some idea of the answer to that question.

The short answer is that AS is not "triggered" by anything, and probably does not relate to emotions and feelings at all. It is a neurological difference that affects perception, communication and interaction.

To put it another way, in terms of communication, interaction and perception, think of an Aspie as having a manual gearshift, European Style, while other (neurologically typical) people have an automatic transmission.

M

Whole books have been written on what you ask (and there is a lot on this site), but if you haven't seen it before, a general overview is here: Wikipedia - Asperger

How to deal is more complicated - depending on the age of the individual, their ability level, etc. There are a number of Asperger-related websites that have information on effective schooling, managing relationships, etc. I think that most would agree that everyone should be seen as an individual, and what works for one person won't necessarily work for another.

Z

This is not a symptom list, these are just "indicators" to look for.

The physical symptom I personally find most definitive is to look for how appropriately a person makes eye contact. Some Aspies, quite unconsciously, never really look at you when they are talking to you, others over-compensate and stare directly into your eyes, some combine both, VERY few manage to fake normal comfortable eye contact...and certainly not small children.

I also look for facial expressions. Aspie are far less facially expressive and, when they aren't actively communicating can tend to relax into having almost totally expressionless faces. Again, we usually learn to fake it to get by, but I don't think anyone ever gets it perfect, particularly when they are tired.

On a slightly deeper level, we tend to be quiet comfortable alone, even as children, and often actually prefer solitude to company.

Totaly disagree, my son dx aspergers 3 years ago & is now 14 & is showing signs of extreme anxity, panic attacks , shaking sweating agression wanting to kill himself ect, due to exams and change of class rooms, so what is it he is experiencing then,& what are your experiences . thanx

I don't see what you are disagreeing with...you son obviously has Asperger Syndrome, but that doesn't mean he has a "get out of jail free" card for all the other wear and tear life can inflict.

He can break a leg, get a cold sore, or develop an anxiety disorder just like anybody else...but that doesn't mean he doesn't have Asperger Syndrome.

Having Asperger Syndrome often means that we are more adversely affected by some things, like change and stress, and usually means that people in general don't relate to us as well, and may even treat us badly because we are different...which causes us distress and frustration, that, without the social skills to resolve the situation that caused it, or the resilience to keep "bouncing back" certainly does, regularly, lead us to extreme anxiety, panic attacks, sweating, shaking, aggression and thoughts of suicide.

You need to try and remove as many of the causes of his present distress as you possibly can. Is there some way you could have his exams deferred for a year? Or even a couple of months, just to give you time to identify and deal with any other problems and reduce the stresses that have him in this state?

M.

I experienced more of what your son experiences, without the aggression. He is experiencing anxiety because it is very difficult for him to know how to manage change and other people. He is at the age when some of the difficulties associated with Asperger's tend to be at their most extreme. He might be very intelligent but at the same time have learning disabilities - resulting in the fear of exams etc. From my own educational experience, even though I was bright, I never knew if I would do well in exams or not - because I have a slightly slowed "processing speed" as well as a deficit in working memory. I couldn't hold things in my mind while I worked on the test answers and became more and more anxious because the tests were timed - and I was afraid that I couldn't finish them. If you have slower processing speed as well as less working memory capacity, other things will be difficult, like understanding directions, being able to find your way, being able to understand interpersonal things. And in the early teen years, many just want to fit in and get extremely frustrated when they don't.

You might google the term "Twice-exceptional" meaning gifted with learning disability or Autism Spectrum Disorder for more info.

Z

About change and anxiety...

Many individuals with autism need routines and rituals and need to know Both are partly the result of the inability to be able to manage change.

All people have routines, but in those with ASDs they're taken to extremes. Routine structure and predictable events structure the day for all people, including for those with autism.

When changes occur, non-autistic people are able to recognise, analyse and ultimately adjust to these changes.

They can recognise that a change is taking place before it is completed, they determine the outcome of the change and what unforeseeable events (events that did not happen yet) will occur while the change and then adjust while the change I tasking place (they can react to sudden events) and to the results of the change according to how they perceive the outcome.

These abilities are closely connected to executive functions which are impaired in those with various neurological disorders including autism.

Huge or complicated changes cause stress to them sometimes too.

But to autistic people changes are a constant source of stress because many cannot go through the same process of recognitions, analysis and imagining the outcome accurately. And if you cannot do that, change is then an unpredictable and you cannot act and function normally through that period you are unable to perceive enough.

That can lead to change renders autistic people non-functional.

In those with AS, varying degrees of distress are often noticed as a reaction to changes. That can be because AS is thought to be a milder version of classical autism often with milder impairments.

Many with AS find it hard to function normally, do things normally because suddenly doing these basic things requires a lot more effort (of the brain) than before which is a very plausible cause for distress and anxiety too.

If the ability to decode and make sense and react adequately and effectively to unfamiliar information/situations is impaired as is often the case to varying degrees in ASD then that is an immense cause of fear, of anxiety.

Basically, when those with AS react anxious to change it is because change is unpredictable to them.

And what is unpredictable causes all people - AS or not - anxiety.

Er, what line?
If someone's problems/issues/traits are triggered by "emotion feelings", then those problems/issues/traits are not Aspergers Syndrome or any other kind of autism. Is that the line you were inquiring about?

Well jacola, based on your description, I would suggest what you son is experiencing is extreme anxiety and panic attacks, accompanied by sweating, aggression and suicidal thoughts. You should probably (in fact certainly) seek medical advice from a suitably qualified health professional if you have not already done so, as what your son is described as suffering are not inevitable implications of an ASD. Your son might very well be depressed or developing an anxiety disorder or suffering unnecessarily, so you should certainly not assume that what he is experiencing is simply the result of AS.

DX asspergers 3 years ago recently dx hyper mobility disorder at Great Ormond St Hospital. Also found out anxiety is asociated with Hyper Mobilty.

Would like to hear of your own personal experiences of aspergers please, in your own words , ( like a situation you have been in, ( no symptom book stuff ) thanx

M.[/quote]

I'd start a new topic for that one, jarcola. I could give you a quick rundown of my experiences, but you have to remember we're not always the same.

OK... basically as a very small child, I was pretty odd. Constant temper tantrums, touch sensitivity, noise and smells got on my nerves like anything... I was a "difficult child". I learned to talk on time (thus AS) but would also recite memorized phrases or monologue on some topic of interest. I had temper tantrums regularly well into my teenage years, but I never hit anyone unless they tried to pin me down.

I've always been socially isolated. At first, I was completely uninterested in people; then they confused me; now I'm interested in psychology and sociology, to try to understand them better. I made my first friend when I was eleven years old, but didn't manage that again until 17. Social subtext really confuses me, so I rely on words to communicate. I have a big vocabulary and I'm a good writer.

A big feature of AS for me is special interests. When I was very young, I was fascinated with medicine and gave all my dolls appendectomies. A little older, and I got into astronomy, learning all the constellations and reading endless books on astrophysics. I understood relativity before I could do algebra. I watched "The Brave Little Toaster" dozens of times, and wrote the plot down in a notebook--it took 30 pages. I've been interested in a computer game to the point that I played it twenty hours a day. Nowadays, I'm very interested in psychology, and I'm probably going to develop an interest in anatomy too. Sometimes these interests get in the way, and other things I should be doing seem completely unimportant.

It's also hard to plan and organize. Sometimes when I'm faced with a complicated task, it seems totally impossible and I procrastinate. Sometimes "complicated" means something as simple as getting dressed; sometimes it means something as difficult as writing a term paper. What I can do, what I can cope with, really seems to depend on how stressed I am. Being over-tired increases stress level. So does having to process too much sensory input, or not having access to a safe place I can retreat to when I'm overwhelmed, or having unexpected, uncontrollable things happen. So a big part of living with autism is managing the stress level.

Planning is easier when you have a routine to depend on. I do things the same way every time because that way it's easier. Sometimes my routines are inefficient and have to be changed, but changing them is always uncomfortable.

Sensory input can really overwhelm me sometimes. I hold my breath if I have to walk through the detergent aisle in a supermarket. The flickering of fluorescent lights can drive me bonkers. I wear sunglasses anytime I'm outdoors. Certain sounds can really create a lot of stress, and I sometimes have trouble filtering out what somebody's saying when there are other noises. I have to wear soft, comfortable clothing, or it's so distracting I can't get anything done. I think the main thing with sensory input is that I don't filter things like most people do. They look at something, or listen, or touch, and they only perceive the important parts. I don't filter near as much, so I get a lot of detail. Yes, it makes me very perceptive, but it can also be totally exhausting.

Stimming--repetitive movements--are one way to manage sensory input. They're calming, feel good and just generally happen in the background for a lot of us. Think of tapping your foot or twirling your hair--that's stimming. Autistic people do it a lot more than most people, probably because we need it more. It can look odd but you can learn to do it surreptitiously.

The good part of it all is that I have a very unique way of thinking. I can picture things in my head easily, and communicate in writing better than most. I'm pretty good at making connections between different concepts, and I'm naturally good at logic. I'm probably going to make a pretty good engineer. (Not every autistic person has the same strengths. There are some that are horrible at writing, and wonderful at music, for example.)

This is just one person's experience. Other people are very different. Autism is diverse.

I have an aversion to many chemicals and synthetic drugs--recreational or pharmaceutical. Same with food, air and water. Water is better without fluoride and chlorine. Food is better without chemical additives, pesticide and herbicide residue. Air is better without smog and chemtrails. Herbs and flower remedies, on the other hand, are gentle and easy for my overly sensitive system to metabolize. Many autistics respond poorly to stronger drugs, which not only poison our bodies and minds, but make it impossible for us to function as well as we normally and naturally would.

The years I used recreational drugs were a bad period of my life even though I had no problem making and keeping friends during that time. It wasn't worth it.. For me, it seems the drugs had a side effect which was BPD or worse. I vividly recall one particularly bad LSD trip was living hell.... As I show no symptoms of BPD when I stay clear of drugs, their manifestation was apparently the unfortunate consequence of a lifestyle which didn't suit me and to which I responded poorly. Even though I have to admit having a multitude of friends was fun...the BPD and other personality shifts had unpleasant consequences--turning my life into a disaster in which self-regulation became nearly impossible. My life spun out of control when I used recreational drugs. And it spins out of control if I can't avoid environmental toxins as well.

BPD and AS may be two sides of the same coin for some of us. AS is my natural state. Drugs cause me distress and make me unnaturally sociable, where making and keeping friends becomes both possible and inevitable....but the price is BPD and other complicated disorders. Even though I can relate to drug users....I definitely don't want to use drugs or have drug users as friends.

People with AS can manifest ritualized routines, mood swings and other behaviors which mimic various disorders....when, in fact, such behaviors can generally be explained within the broader context of autism as it constitutes the basic underlying neurology. IMO the environmental toxins we are all exposed to, may cause the more sensitive among us to develop very nasty behaviors. These behaviors are not our natural state and if we can avoid exposure to the poisons which cause them, we will be much happier and well adjusted.. In general I believe autistics should not be given pharmaceutical drugs no matter how helpful they may be in terms of enabling us to be more sociable and friendly. The price we pay for doing so is way too high IMO.

Autism may not make life easy, but there is no reason to complicate it further through ingestion or exposure to toxins and chemical poisons.

Last edited by alba on 27 Feb 2009, 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Off topic but I have Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome and I've always wondered the connection...we recently found out I'm missing a gene that's important in neuro, connective tissue etc formation.

Thats really intresting, do you suffer more with anxiety , if so how do you cope with it ?

My anxiety is mostly social anxiety...I don't find i have any less than other Aspies...I also have OCD which is another comorbid. The Borderline causes anxiety but it's very short lived...