Asperger to be sent to jail for 70 years - Pentagon

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That's just BS about us having no empathy. Of course we have it, I see aspies showing it all the time on forums. People just assume we don't because we don't show it the same way as they do or because we aren't reading their body language, etc. Even I have been accused of not caring about other people and having no empathy. My ex thought I didn't have it because I didn't feel things inside me or about other things. At least my parents know I have it. They say I even show it. Well I'm their daughter so they know me and know what to look for to see it. My own bf thinks I lack it too. One of the reasons was because he fell out of the bathtub and the way he landed was funny so I laughed. I told him lot of people find it funny when people fall down. Look at American's Funniest Home Videos. I say everyone lacks empathy. I mean I don't care when people die or when bad things happen I hear on the news. It's not my problem, it's theirs and their family members and friends. I doubt anyone else would care too because it's not their problem.

So when an aspie commits a crime, it angers me when people make an assumption because "aspies have no empathy," it made them do the crime. BS. None aspies do crimes too, does that mean they have no empathy either? A crime is a crime. Learn the laws, don't do them. I don't care if they thought they would get away with it, or they didn't think there be a consequence or they didn't give a s**t just because they have no empathy. Oh well at least they taught other people what they did was wrong so they know not to do that. I wouldn't want an aspie to break into my apartment and then he goes scot free and have him do it again to other peoples homes because he doesn't care. What kind of world are you coming from where you want aspies to run wild and do crimes (rather they are harmless or not) because they have no empathy? They shouldn't be out in the real world then.

Maybe someday people will realize we do have empathy but we just show it differently.

I'm not saying that having AS is a valid reason to avoid punishment for crimes committed, but it can affect what punishment is given due to certain mitigating circumstances.

For example, in the case of this thread; someone hacking into a government's secure network for the purpose of espionage will require completely different punishment than a geek who likes UFOs and aliens, and his only reason for hacking said secure network was for information pertaining to such.

AS needn't even come into play in this case, but it can depending on what the defendant says, i.e., his reasoning.

In regards to empathy [and other symptoms], I take research papers and clinical sites over what individuals on the 'net say, and most people should if they want an objective view.

Frankly, as an American, I wonder why they are making an issue over him when Chinese hackers have done more than just get into our networks, they actually do sabotage that goes unpunished.

Let us hope your therapist is better at delivering therapy than they are at legal analysis.

Evidently, people with AS are certainly impaired in the kind of empathy that is relevant to the legal concept of mens rea (guilty mind). This is of course not the same as AS is necessarily a legal defense in any particular crime, nor the same as saying no one with AS has empathy, nor even the same as suggesting that everyone with AS has similar (much less the same) competence in the area of empathy.

AS is a spectrum condition. It astounds me how quickly so many posters here forget this and jump into the "some X = Y therefore, all X = Y" fallacy.

I do not see this case very much a an Asperger case, much more a case where the British parliament and government made some unreasonable decisions - and the judges had to implement those.

It could be that his Asperger would play a role in assessing the real extent of the "mens rea", but unlikely in a way that an Asperger would be criminally incapable, but more along the line of extenuating circumstances, but in current stage of the case this should not play any role.

Exceatly, its some serious stuff this guy had done.

That is certainly a very significant aspect of this case. I would not say it is not an AS case (I'm a bit unsure what that means), but I would certainly agree that the most wide reaching significant legal aspect of this case is the proposed extradition and the circumstances of this.

So in my view, the extradition issue, independent of any role AS may or may not play, is a very pressing and significant aspect of this case. Certainly it appears to me to be the legal question with the most far reaching and significant consequences.

It has been surprising to me, when I have read discussion of this issue, that so few people see this in terms of nation states and their independence of foreign powers, rather than in terms of "but he's been a very naughty boy".

Kevin Mitnick was sent to prison for 22 months. Not 70 years. Gary McKinnon's sentence is completely out of proportion--two years would have been quite enough, and no extradition necessary.

I doubt his sentence has anything to do with him having AS. Anyone who did the same thing would be treated the same way, especially after 9/11. They have the public to consider. If something else happens, especially because of this type of activity: hacking, the public would never forgive unless something was done to discourage it, if not stop it completely. There has to be a strong message relayed.

I agree, but that is what courts are for.

We do have a treaty with the UK regarding this, it is a little late to have second thoughts.

If as it is being claimed he was just a stoner, who now has a recently discovered AS Dx, he still broke laws.

Intent is everything, Killing someone in a car wreck can be an accident, or if you were speeding/drinking manslaughter, but if the person killed was your ex wife, it might get serious.

About our computer systems, there are no open systems, all is password protected. Once inside you can move about, but first you have to get in.

There are levels, there are traces on everything.

There are no files labeled, Secret Deals with the ETs. That is on another site, closed, and based on need to know.

UFOs can be found in cave paintings, later European art, and the written reports cover hundreds of years. The saucer and cigar have been consistant over time. Now with video, there are twenty tapes of one sighting in Mexico. They are sort of real.

The people are not ready for the truth, it has to be put out in bits. From the movie, Repo Man, the impossible is ruled out, travel from another star, Physics blocks that as travel times and energy needs make it impossible, taking hundreds of years between stops. "Where do they come from? The future, think about it."

Fifty years after Tesla, AT, Univac was several rooms full of tubes and wires. Several years after Roswell, Bell Labs comes out with the Transister. Then the Intergrated Circuit, making the Internet possible. The World Brain. Not bad for the year 100 AT.

That has nothing to do with The United States Department of Defense, which is what was hacked.

We have long had laws about Wire Fraud, we hunt down people who list items on Ebay, from the UK, sell a hundred laptops, then don't deliver.

We have pornography laws, UK based Kiddie Porn will be hunted down.

We have laws about unlawful access to private computers, yours, and the Internet takes worldwide protection.

Gary says he was stoned, and now AS, that would not be a defense if he sold 100 laptops, or offered Kiddie Porn, or if he was just stealing people's identity. Doing it from the UK would not be a defense.

He admits hacking the Department of Defense, and claims knowledge of Chinese hackers.

There is a record of every site he went to, every file he looked at, and we want to know a few things, how did he get in, what he knows about the Chinese, and so far we only have his word that he did not download anything, or leave anything, spyware, and without full disclosure on his part, we will have to replace all those systems. That will cost Billions.

The extent of the damage can only be known through a full accounting by Gary.

The only thing unusual about this case is the coverup.

It shouldn't be taken lightly. It's the Department of Defense. He was inside looking at all that top secret stuff. I don't know what he'd find in there, but think of all the money he'd make selling it to the National Enquirer, especially if it was interesting information. It would be enough to keep him supplied with pot for a good, long while.

And what does having Aspergers have to do with commiting a crime? He commited a crime. It doesn't matter if he has autism or Down's, he's going to jail.

If there was an article mentioning that this criminal had autism, I'd call my lawyer.

Well, I think the idea that AS means a lack of empathy is nonsense, and not "objective" at all. This is partially because researchers don't have a very cognizant definition of empathy, and the Simon Barron-Cohen definition seems to have been gerrymandered for the specific purpose of claiming that autistic people don't have empathy. I remember a study being posted here which measured autistic people's empathy vs. NTs using different scales to measure empathy. The scales were not designed with autism in mind, and it used multiple types of empathy. The study found that while autistic people did tend to rate significantly lower on "cognitive" empathy, but equal to or even higher on other forms of empathy such as emotional empathy.

I basically agree with this assessment of the case, though. There's no need to bring AS into it. I would not support jailing anyone for 70 years if their motivation in hacking was to search for UFOs. Diagnosis doesn't matter; intent does. The 70 year sentence is appropriate for people caught hacking with the intention of providing information to terrorist organizations, but not in this instance.

I know, I know! I vote "C."



Especially since there is no sentence yet, just publicity as to what it COULD be.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 30 Mar 2009, 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Our jails are overcrowded but they aren't ALL that appalling. Some worse, some better, given that this is generally a local matter, but the court system pretty aggressively protects the rights of those inside to healthcare, cleanliness, etc. Which is, of course, WHY you hear about the bad ones: inmates sue, so that conditions will be fixed. That can time take, but it DOES happen.

I think we need to clarify something. Many posters are assuming that he has BEEN sentenced to 70 years, which I do not believe to be the case. He hasn't even faced trial yet! I believe the correct statement is that he faces a sentence of UP TO 70 years IF he is convicted, correct? Someone earlier noted that the 70 is based on consecutive sentences of 6 months each for each violation, or something? Can anyone clarify? Reason being, Judges may allow that multiple sentences be served SIMULTANEOUSLY, instead of consecutively, in most instances, and judges often do just that. NO ONE ACTUALLY KNOWS what the sentence will be because it HASN'T BEEN GIVEN. What there is is knowledge of the MAXIMUM, and there is fear around that, but we DON'T KNOW if, after trial, he would be GIVEN the maximum.