Extra, extra! Greentea going for diagnosis! (of all people!)

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Greentea, I think you're a nice and intelligent woman. I've been called an a**hole by my fiance plenty of times and I've had plenty of meltdowns.

Greentea

Please read this. It's on my blog as well.

http://cubedemon.blogspot.com/2009/05/r ... -post.html

Rita Skeeter made on excellent points on ABFH's blog. http://autisticbfh.blogspot.com/2009/05 ... html#links

Here are some of her main points

1. We're seen as carnival freak shows.

2. These NTs want us to fake our ways through lives and be something we are not.

3. On Erik's ranch are these positions picked for them or do they get to choose? What about what the ASD person wants? What if it's not in their special interest and they don't want to do it? Lindsay made an excellent point about this.

4. Rita asked can these ASDs leave anytime they want? If not, then it's just a glorified mental institution and the truth is is that the NTs taking pictures see them as ret*ds and savages. I say let's cut the BS and cut out all the niceties. Let's just call a spade a spade already.


I say this to the aspergian community this and this is my proposal. I say we cannot meet their standards no matter how hard we try. NTs will spot a fake eventually someway, somehow. Eventually, they will spot the hard core psychopath no matter how good this man from sociopathworld claims to be. http://www.sociopathworld.com/ If a hard core psychopath or sociopath can be spotted don't you think we ASDs will be spotted eventually as well.

Phil said this. You can't act your way through life. Life is not a game and it's variable. Life will chew a teenage aspie who thinks they know it all.

Guess what teenage Aspies. You're being sold a false bill of goods. You're being sold a lie. All your social skills training cannot get you through every situation you may encounter in every place. We do not have the NT social instinct and we will never be NT no matter what. There is no cure.

On this sociopath's blog at sociopathworld this man invited us, aspies, to become sociopaths. Is this what you want my fellow aspies? I certainly do not. I am morally repulsed by this man on sociopathworld. This is what the NTs are telling us to do and encouraging us to do. They want us to be like sociopaths.

Let me ask you this my fellow aspies. Do you to truly be like the NTs. This goes to you Jonathan Mitchell as well. This goes to you Billy Cresp. The more I'm around NTs the more I don't want to be an NT and even be around NTs for the most part. I am repulsed by their behavior. You should be as well.

I am about to email this to my fiance and tell her my feelings and ask my questions and make my points:
"Sweetie First, I do love you. Second, I need to define some definitions. Third, I will tell you why I am angry on what I have derived through reason, logic, venn diagrams, and mathamatics using set theory. Doublespeak means to take two contradictory concepts and to believe both at the same time. For instance, I have to believe that it is 11:59 PM and 11:59 AM at the same time. This is why I have been angry in general at my own society and at you. First, when American society says I'm entitled to nothing and I'm owed nothing and I have to work for it then it's contradictory and is a lie. It's impossible to be owed the right not to steal and be owed the right to steal at the same time. This is doublespeak, a lie and I know I am entitled and owed the right not to steal. Here is another twist. I'm not owed the right to steal and I'm not owed the right not to steal. This is another lie and is BS. I know I'm not owed the right to steal. If I'm truly entitled to nothing and this is literally true then:

1. I'm not owed the right to take responsbility and I would have to work for it
2. I'm not owed the means to take responibility and I would have to work for it
3. I'm not owed the detailed instructions on how to take responsibility and how to apply the means and I would have to work for it.
4. I'm not owed the right to life and I would have to work for it
5. I'm not owed the right to liberty and I would have to work for it
6. I'm not owed the right to purse happiness and I would have to work for it This means our constitution is a farce and is not worth the paper that it's printed on. If I'm truly entitled to nothing then I can claim that as an entitlement and what I'm owed and I would have to work for it.

This means I'm not owed nothing and I have to work to get nothing which means I have to work to have things taken away by this logic of I have to work for everything and I'm owed nothing which I know is a lie and is doublespeak again. By this logic, everything should be bestowed upon and I have to work to have these things removed. Why would I logically believe the absoluteness of this insane anti-value when I know it's not totally and absolutely true. I know for a fact some of the members of the Set of what could be possible to work for, W should be an automatic given. When this statement is said by the advocates for self-responsibility that the members of this set of W are not owed to anyone and I'm owed ~U, which is the empty set meaning nothing, I know it's a false hood and I know it's impossible to uphold.

Values are what most people in a society hold dear, love, and cherish. Anti-Values are things in which most people in a society find repulsive and hate.

For instance, most people in this society love values of taking responsibility and hate things like entitlement and blaming others. This is a problem though. It's logically impossible for one to be responsible for all things that happen to you. There are things that are beyond a person's control. In fact, why can't I blame someone if I truly can prove through reason and logic that it is their fault and that a certain thing was beyond my control?

Here is an example from 4th grade. We were out in the hallway and Mr. Hallman told all of us to stand in the 2nd block. I could not comply with that instruction because I was being bullied and picked on by Eric O'Conner who is now on the Sex Offenders Registry. My being bullied by this guy prevented me from hearing the instruction from Mr. Hallman from standing in the 2nd block. I heard the instruction to stand in a straight line but I could not because the line was crooked and jagged. I and others still got into trouble anyway and I had to write a paper explaining why I didn't stand in the 2nd block. I gave him the details in my paper that I gave you. I also told Mr. Hallman to check my discipline record vs. his discipline record in the principle's office which was Dr. Knight at the time.

By the logic of taking responsbility for my actions that are preached today by advocates for self-responsibilty I should still get into trouble and take responsibililty for not standing in the 2nd block no matter the reason. This is illlogical, unfair, and unreasonable. Before someone says life is unfair I say that it is sometimes true and sometimes false and it's a major cop out just to get out of thinking about it.

Basically it's a lazy way out and again it tells someone like me nothing. When people like me are told these phrases: you're entitled to nothing, life is not fair, be more responsible and quit blaming others these phrases tell me and people like me nothing, makes me more angry than I already am because I know they're illogical, they're condescending, these phrases are doublespeak and lies and whomever tells me these phrases are liars and are using these phrases as a cop out. These phrases that are preached everyday tell people like me nothing.

They don't tell us the rules, gives us the means, and how to objectively determine if something is our fault or not. They don't tell us the rules on :

1. the appropriate way to take responsibility

2. the means to take responsbility

3. the detailed step by step instructions on how to take responsibility,

4. the entitlement to take responsibility since:
a. I'm owed nothing
b. entitled to nothing
c. I have to work for everything I receive.

My questions on blaming others and society:
1. Is it ever acceptable to blame a person on what happens to you?
2. Is it ever acceptable to blame a group of people on what happens to you?
3. Is it ever acceptable to blame society on what happens to you?
4. Is it ever acceptable to blame the world on what happens to you?
5. If the answers are yes to 1-4 what are those answers.

If the answers are no then I know that is a lie. Now let's talk further about blaming others. For most of my life I was just thrown into situations by people and I was not given any detailed instructions on how to handle these situations and coached through them mainly social situations and then they wonder why I fail. I give them the reason and it's like it goes right over their head. Even with you it seems like it goes over your head and it comes across that I'm making excuses. Why you and most people take my matter of fact style this way is lost upon me. It's almost like I'm speaking a different dialect of english which is more formal and proper.

A lot of situations I've had to logically reason out myself. Most people have an instinct that I do not have. My logical reasoning and sticking to rules is what I use to compensate and this is why I see people as systems to be figured out so I know how to deal with them. Basically, most people have the attitude of figure it out yourself including you. When I attempt to do ths doesn't come out the way they want but they don't tell me why and show me in detail what I did wrong. People like me are told to take responsbility and quit blaming others.

Logically, if I'm owed nothing like the advocates for self-responsbility claim I'm owed then I'm not owed

1. the details of what I did wrong

2. the details on how to make amends.

3. the details on preventing this from happening again. This is why I and people like me are angry. I have been raised by my parents with excellent values such as honesty but I'm expected to be dishonest in my every day dealings with people. I am expected in this society to get to the top in the corporate world and to succeed with any means possible no matter who gets hurt. All I wanted to do was deal with people in an honest way but it's becoming harder to do that and I'm becoming more depressed as the years pass that it's becoming harder to function.

In fact, Sweetie, you said would be cut throat. This means you would play these dishonest and sophistry games and I'm expected to do the same by the rest of American society. You claim lying is a sin. Is this a true statement or not? Am supposed to lie or am I not in my dealings with people? Again, I'm dealing in doublespeak and you're giving me doublespeak.

Before you say I'm blaming you and society I ask what if I could prove my points which disproves your's and society's points. What if I say that our society is becoming more like Sodom and Oceania (George Orwell's Book "1984") by these standards right here:

Your elder sister is Samaria, who lived with her daughters to the north of you; and your younger sister, who lived to the south of you, is Sodom with her daughters. You not only followed their ways, and acted according to their abominations; within a very little time you were more corrupt than they in all your ways. As I live, says the Lord GOD, your sister Sodom and her daughters have not done as you and your daughters have done. This was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed them when I saw it.

Ezekiel 16:46-50 Even if homosexuality is a sin, and the sodomites committed this sin, it wasn't the only sin in sodom by what these quotes say. A whole society was blamed and condemed. In effect, whole societies can be blamed.

Let's look at what happend to K at her job. Her boss and another co-worker tried to blackball her. I ask for what? What exactly did she do? By what it sounded like K is one of the best workers there and she's being treated like crap but for what? Because she's black? I ask WTF?

Basically her boss wanted to be a political and social dictator and wanted to get rid of K because the boss didn't like K. This proves my point yet again that a person can legitimately blame others and can blame society for certain things. K can blame her boss for certain things and rightfully so. What if comforming to society like it is required goes against comforming to God and what he says in the bible?

This is why I've wanted to withdraw from society completely or to end my life by the method Socrates used when he was forced to take Hemlock by Athens which was a pure democracy. In order to live in a society, there has to be a certain capability and capacity to be able to succeed in it. There has to be a reasonable rate of success in order to have psychological and mental well being.

If a person is too different especially in thought process than most likely they will not. Five things can be done with this person. What if most people are becoming so socialized that it is harder and harder to do the right thing anymore like being honest and helping the poor and needy? This means they're oversocialized.

1. Instructions and the means are given to that person in detail on how to be responsible in this given society. The person should have the means to be able to ask questions if needed.

2. Accomodations must be made for that person to succeed and to be able to be responsible

3. Certain behaviors and ways of thinking must be made and fought for to be acceptable in this society.

4. This person must be given disability payments and enough for them to live on for the rest of their lives.

5. The person must be given the supplies, training, and the means to be able to live on their own away from any society at all like Henry David Thoreu did and allowed to become a hermit if they wish. It can be a combination of all 5 of these.

The truth is most people are fake and phony and I'm expected to play the same game in which I cannot. I'm expected to be dishonest and step on other people's toes and not give f**k on who gets hurt in the process. I consider America now Oceania and Sodom. Here is a quote that you love to quote all the time "If a person does not work, they shall not eat."

Here is a question I have. What happens if a person's respective society won't let them work due to traits they have or lack? What do they do then? Fight their own society? Leave their respective society? Or Suck it up and take it up the ass? What does God command on this?

How does the bible determine who can and cannot work? These are the traits employers want these days in a potential employee it seems like:

1. Speed over thouroughness

2. Making the most money in the shortest amount of time over making the most money over the long term

3. Teams over autonomy

4. Social Skills over just being able to do the job

5. Social Status

6. Flexibility(Doing things that need to be done at the drop of a hat instantly) over specified functions that you do and nothing else.

7. Multitasking

8. Playing these sophistry,doublespeak, and dishonest games

9. Giving instant answer If one does not have these traits and cannot gain these traits without detailed instruction then how is one expected to work at all like God demands if society refuses to help a person to gain these respective traits.

You demand alot of these traits as well. I don't have the ability to meet these traits. If I do the ability, then show me how to acquire these traits. Show me how to answer questions in the instant manner that is demanded of me by society including you without having to think about it. You say it's about us then show me how to coordinate myself with "us" or am I not owed these detailed instructions as well? Show me how to multitask in the fast paced manner that is required without having to think about it?

Multitasking is truly inefficient anyway which I can prove mathematically. You want me to get a better job right then I need to be shown these things or I need to be exempted from these things or I need medication or something:

0. eye contact-tell me the mechanics and details behind this.

a. How do maintain it without it being painful?

b. How do I concentrate on what anyone is saying while maintaining eye contact?

c. How long should I maintain eye contact?

d. Is there ever a time to break eye contact?

e. What is the purpose of eye contact? Why is this such an inherent requirement of most people?

What exact information do most people get out of eye contact?

f. I feel that if anyone tries to make eye contact with me that they're trying to attack me. Why do I feel this way? This is another issue I have. If they try to make eye contact I can end up in a fight or flight response mode. Even with you, it takes alot to maintain control if you look me in the eyes. When B tried to do it I had to keep myself from attacking her and maintain control. How come most people do not feel this way when making eye contact?

1. How is it possible for anyone to work if they're given no detailed instructions are given or owed on how to do a particular task and what they want accomplished out of a task if a person if actually owed nothing or entitled to nothing?

2. How is it possible to work at a place like kroger where there are multiple supervisors there who give contradictory instructions? How do you follow the instructions A and ~A at the same time? You say I'm making excuses. I say no I'm not. I'm stating facts from my point of view. It may be wrong and if so please tell me where I'm wrong in my logical thinking? If I'm wrong I will self-correct. You notice I will do that if I'm proven to be wrong and I know I'm wrong.

3. How is it possible to be responsible when one is not owed or entitled to :

a. the means for taking responsibility

b. detailed instructions on how to be responsible or what would be considered responsible

c. to know what you're responsible for at what given time or placed.

d. taking responsbility is not a guaranteed right as well as a duty.

4. How is it possible to obtain any job, work at all like God commands, and be responsible when:

a. questions in an interview are vague

b. each professional job requires years of experience

c. each professional job requires other things that may require years of experience.

d. one cannot make eye contact and does not understand the logic behind eye contacte. one is expected to multitask which is inefficient anyway and I can prove this mathamatically.

f. one is expected to do fast thinking or thinking on your feet in which I do not know how to do and coming up with an answer on the spot.

g. How is anyone able to meet the requirements that are the standards of today? It seems like magic to me?

5. How is it possible to follow instructions when a particular instruction can have multiple meanings and multiple ways to follow them and it would be considered rude to ask for clarification and details.

6. How is it possible to know what you did wrong on an interview if I am not entitled to know what I did wrong?

7. How is it possible for me to hide my aspergers like you request when it's blatant and right in people's face?

8. How is it possible to know what anyone including the interviewer, you, or a boss is saying if they don't say what they mean and mean what they say. By what I have read in the bible so far God wants me to do the opposite of certain things that society wants. How can I and others fit into a society that goes against what God wants and we are commanded by God not to comform to the ways of the world. What would happen if my working as he commands causes me to sin? What do I do?

1. Do I fight the practice that is taking place and the practice society wants me to do including you?

2. Do I comform to it and go against God? What do I do in this catch-22? The advocates for self-responsibility say I can't earn my way to heaven. I agree.

Isn't faith:
a. believing Jesus died on the cross

b. he died for my sins

c. he is the messiah

d. he is the son of God

There is one problem with this. This is still earning my way to heaven. I still have to do something to gain something in return. So, I am still earning my way to heaven. Here is another phrase I truly hate: "Get Over It." Phil's reason is my reason as well. http://www.philsworld.com.au/tl/old/anxiety.htm I will add additional reasons to this.

1. It's patronizing and condescending

2. It tells me no detailed answer or solution at all to a problem I may hae.

3. It doesn't explain why events happened in my life the way they did in a detailed and logical manner?

4. A presumption is made by you and others like you that I can just easily do this at the drop of a hat.

5. It doesn't tell me how to prevent the same problem or situation from occuring again.


6. I lack social instinct so things most people know instinctively I need to be taught rotely and I need to be told in detail what most people know and pick up using this social instinct and why? If not then I cannot quote on quote "Get over it."

If I'm truly owed nothing like advocates for self-responsibility claim including the answers and detailed instructions I need then answer these questions:

1. How can I be responsible at all for anything?

2. How is possible for me to work at all?

3. How is it possible for me to work for "us" as a team when I don't have this instinct to coordinate myself with "us?"

4. How is it possible to meet society's or your standard's when the standards are unsaid and non-written and I have to use this instinct which I lack this instinct or the ability to use it or if the standards are said and written they may be vague or contradictory with others?

5. You say to keep trying harder. I ask how do I keep trying harder? Sweetie, you say don't try to fight society at all and you like it the way it is. I ask why? Why should I comform to standards that I find repugnant like being dishonest and getting to the top no matter who gets hurt? Why do you not want me to challenge these things at all? I can't in good concience not attempt to fight this? I want to work Sweetie.

If working requires me and folks like me to play these games and to step on hurt people the answer me why I should not
a. withdraw from society, or

b. fight society.

So I ask you, why should I and others like myself comform to standards that almost are like Sodom's standards."


So I'm going to ask some of these same questions to the aspergian community as well.
1. Why are we trying to fit into standards that naturally repulse us and our sensibilities.
2. Why do we want to be like people and deal with people who treat us like s**t and even themselves like s**t?
3. Why are we trying to fit into a society in which the description of sodom applies?
4. Why are we trying to act like a sociopath that the NTs want?
5. I ask why if we're entitled to nothing at all and owed nothing then I ask why are we not owed the right and not entitled to not call these so called advocates for self-responsibility on their own BS, their own narcissism, and their own f*****g selfishness.

MY ULTIMATE QUESTION TO THE NEUROTYPICAL WORLD: I ask if we're entitled to nothing then I ask does this mean are we not entitled and not owed the right to not to tell you so called advocates for self-responsibilty to go f**k yourselves? Are we not entitled and not owed the right to not leave your BS society and not form our own society or at least our own communities and take care of our own?

I say I agree with the NT world in it's anti-value of the Sense of Entitlement. I agree that We aspies are entitled to nothing including not being entitled to not tell the truth about yourselves and how repulsive your behaviors are to us. I say to you again all I'm not entitled not to tell all to go f**k yourselves.

I invite Rita Skeeter to be in our community as well. Rita Skeeter is awesome and probably knows some excellent tea shops that have excellent tea that is calming and relaxing from being stressed out from dealing with NTs all f*****g day. Maybe Rita Skeeter knows some relaxing and calming techniques I can do when I'm stressed out.

I say Rita Skeeter is a kind woman and I am going to dream long and happily tonight.

cube, I always thought you were female. Not that it matters, just interesting how we form ideas in our heads with no reason...

And yes, I did explain to the Psych that the experience from one case doesn't help me in another case because I can't see the similarity between them, but it's like anything I said that might point to AS was promptly disregarded, ignored, rationalized or refuted by him.

And he kept answering and talking on his cell phone and we'd lose the thread of our conversation each time, which at a few dollars the minute as I was paying him, cost me a lot of money.

Or, as they say in the vernacular, wtf!?

That is highly unprofessional. That was your time and your money.

WHAT?????! !?!?! !?! !?

I can't believe a "professional" actually said these things to you.

That makes me so angry that someone said all this crap to a fellow AS'er. Especially accusing you of choosing not to read people and being too self centred to care about others. That's one of the coldest most destructive things I've ever heard.

I'm sorry you had that negative experience. You should definitely see someone else, and make sure it's an ASD specialist.

I never had a therapist do that, certainly not a Psychiatrist during a diagnosis session that costs a fortune. But if I'd told him that it bothered me and could he please switch off the cell, it would've reinforced his claim that it's my intolerance that makes others not like me. So I suffered in silence. But I have no respect for a person who does that, especially because he wasn't telling people to call later, he just talked to them, and they were clearly not emergency calls. And had he been in an emergency, he could've apologized and rescheduled. The phone issue is what ultimately broke my trust in him.

Last edited by Greentea on 27 May 2009, 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Greentea, that was no doctor, that was a quackdor.


It's obvious you have something because of all your struggles you have been posting here.

That was extremely rude and inconsiderate of him. Your being bothered by it is not your problem, it's his. I think anyone would be annoyed by that. If someone did that to me, I'd use the stopclock on my phone, then ask for the money back for the time they wasted.

The guy sounds very unprofessional, not someone to be trusted at all.

We love you Greentea.

I guess there's one more idiot in the world that I somehow missed counting.

What's most important is you. Sometimes the obstacles can seem as impassible as the Maginot Line.

So I'm thinking the diagnosis might not have helped anyway if you still have to find a job. If you got a diagnosis, would your employers find out and what would it mean? The only benefit I can see for getting one is if you could go on public assistance but since you cannot, maybe it wouldn't do you much good anyway.

This is going to sound weird to you all. I already told this to gina-ghettoprincess.

I had a dream when I was 19 years old. This was long before I knew I had aspergers.

I was thrown out by my parents into the street. I ended up becoming homeless. I met folks such as myself. We all talked and we philosphized about different things including our experiences. We all finally concluded we couldn't make it in what we called normal society at all anywhere. Instead we decided to form our own society and our own community in Central Europe. I was then given a bird's eye view of the continent of Europe and I was told this by a loud and thundering voice.

It said "You and people like you will not make it in their world. This is going to happen in some form. You will meet others like yourself and you will talk and philosphize and you will form your own society and communities and I was to help to do this. Their world is not meant for you."

This dream was the most realistic dream I ever had. It felt so real.

Guess what two of these things have become reality. I've discovered who I am and met others like myself. We have all philosphized and talked. I dismissed this as nonsense and as a dream when I was 19 but at 30 I still have vivid memories of this dream and now I'm begining to wonder if this is what needs to be done. I probably sound really crazy even to the you. Sometimes I wonder if I'm crazy myself lol. Do you have any opinions?

We seem to be a distinct culture with our own moores and customs.

I have the feeling that NTs have some sort of natural aversion to us especially the narcisstic ones. Why, I do not know.

The truth is like my father always taught me. You can't be something you're not. Always be yourself. I ask how can we be our true selves in a society in which we cannot survive being our true selves? This means we have to be a fake and a phony. I, in good concience, cannot do this anymore. It's slowly killing me. If I do not stop I will be dead. It does not look like social security will help us at all.

The truth is I think for the most part we aspies/auties are on own. We have had major failure after failure in our lives. This is because the AS and the NT mindset our not compatible at all. But, we seem to get along with each other for the most part. I think we all need to stick to together and help each other out. I have a bad feeling that for the most part NTs will never accept us. Greentea you are an excellent anthropologist with the NTs. Emephrella is excellent with the psychological part of NTs

I think we need to form our own society and for the most part we need to be self-sufficient. In addition, I think the NT world will collapse on itself metaphorically like a ton of bricks.

I have a dream that one day maybe all humankind will join together in brotherhood and sisterhood as equals but right now we AS's need to look after our own including the AS children as well.

I thought I was the last of my kind Greentea and you know what I'm glad to be home with my own kind and I consider you all like my brothers,sisters, kin, and people.

I sent this to Phil in an im a few days ago.

We all went to a game place today to celebrate my fiance's nephew's birthday. Well I wanted to give him the best birthday he has ever had.

This is what I did. I decided to win him some tickets. There were games you could play which gives you tickets to use to pick out prizes. Well I decided to look around to see what machines would give me a ton of tickets at a time. I found some. They had the theme of monopoly.

Basically lights were put in a rectangular position and if you hit a range win a certain number of tickets depending what number the light shined on when you hit the stop button.

This is what I did to beat this system and win a whole bunch of tickets for each play. I knew that my hand going down to hit the button took a certain amount of time which was about few seconds. I noticed that there was a delay that from when I hit the button and it was on the light it would go to about 2-4 lights down after I hit the button to stop. In effect, I could at least stay within the range to win tickets everytime and half the time I could win 8-10 tickets. I won the jackpot twice. The 1st was 157 tickets. The 2nd was 107 tickets.

Security there was watching me do this and kept following me around.

I did the same thing with laser tag. I followed sun tzu's advice. Know myself and Know my enemy. I knew I was not athletic and could not run fast. This is what I did. I negated all of that by hiding and staying in the very corner of the room while hiding behind barriers. The reason I did this was because there are normally 4 directions to watch out for when playing this game. North, South, East and West. I negated east and South so all I had to cover was west and north. If Quad, my fiance's brother in law who was on my team would've stratagized with me we would've won but we still got 2nd place. He wanted to go in there and hot dog it. He was quick though. 6000 (beep!)ing points. When he got back to me I told him to cover west one direction and I covered the other and so each of us had only one position we had to cover while everyone else was running. He finally caught on to what I did and was doing and understood. He is a very intelligent man. In fact this is one way I won computer games. I would make sure the enemies couldn't get to me except through one or two directions and sometimes through a door. We got 2nd place and lost by a 1000 points but the other 2 teams did far worse.

We would've won if he didn't go to hot dog it.

Best and Mitchell tried to portray themselves as very honorable men but they're really not. Best tried to make Paul Ofitt eat his words by challenging Ofitt to having about 100,000 needles stuck in him by so called angry parents. I then decided to accept the challenge that was offered to Ofitt by Best with my specified conditions including allowing Best to put his own conditions himself.

Another thing I did was I studied value sets and the different kinds of value members that are possible to be in the different value or non value sets like honor, prudence, entitlements,etc.

One of these members is that if I reveal my name in a dispute then I become more honorable. There is another member of the set of things that are honorable h and can be part of the set of things that are prudent p. My response to Best and Mitchell, and the evidence is on best's own site by the way as David Andrews pointed out, that it would be imprudent of me to reveal my name and I would suffer worse dishonor if my loved ones were hurt in any way, shape, or form to protect my honor and my ego. It would be very selfish of me to reveal my name to these two unsavory men. Guess what my logic and reasoning are not excuses but are actually open and completely honest.

They did not accept this so I posted a counter challenge to Best and Mitchell and I have received nothing but silence thus far from both of them.

These two guys were trying to use excellent values like honor in a discipable, cheating, manipulative, and dishonest way.

I did not do any deceptions or lying at all. I didn't have too. I used complete and unbridled honesty(dynamic honesty) to silence Best and Mitchell so far. I'm still waiting for them to meet my stated conditions for me to reveal my name and if they cannot meet my conditions then it would be dishonorable for me to reveal my name.

Now, David Andrews said I didn't gain anything from these two guys. David is correct that in the traditional sense I did not gain a damn thing. Let's look outside the box again. I feel I gained this:

1. I became a better thinker and it helps me to refine Dynamic honesty and mitchell helped a great deal and I commend him for that.
2. Everytime Best or Mitchell says anything at all to me I accept that once in a while he may have a point on something, thus I am able to self-correct, and become a better person that way. In effect, anything he says bad about our movement and ND and that he may have a point on I can take his point and use it to correct the flaw in which I am attempting to do with the guy from sociopathworld. So, Best by bashing, helps, through his innane banterings and his sophistries, actually can help to make ND and our movement better by taking a legitimate problem he may have and actually self-correct it. Another way he helps us is we know what not to do when making points.
3. In the debate I don't debate, I dialouge, I don't try to be right, I try to learn and grow so I can help to make all of the individuals of humanity better. In fact the goal of my dialouge is for the other person to gain just as well. I don't just think of what I would gain. I throw positive energy instead of negative energy if anyone understands this. In fact, Lisa and Sophie may have gained something as well that may benefit them in the end.

4. In my mind, even if Best won my challenge and I know that I lost but I gained a monsterous gain in the end and I still win in the end. In fact, we all win in the end. Best does as well. If he loses the challenge then maybe he'll realize he was wrong, self-correct, admit he was wrong, and apologize. If he did this he would still gain a gain. He can still write about the methods he uses for his horse races, he can publish a book on his whole journey on how he was trying to save his son and became blinded by his own vanities on this and eventually sought and got redemption. This is another way Best could benefit even if he loses or wins. He can take his losses and turn them into gains.

In fact I invite everyone on our side and the curebie sides to do this. I invite Best and Mitchell as well to do this as well. They may lose to me now but in the end they both would win if they followe my advice. Isn't that what you're supposed to do in Poker or horse racing Best??? If they do not they will lose against me. In order, to win against me Best you will have to be completely honest and use no deceptions at all. If do not do this you will lose Best. You will lose Mitchell. Both of you will lose against me unless you're completely honest and use no deceptions at all and lying is a form of deception by the way. The only other thing you and mitchell can do is be silent which both of you have done.

Now what do you all think would happen if we took Dynamic Honesty and applied it to our govermental, political, economic, and our social systems which right now are static and closed and are prone to deceptions.

As I get better at this, I will negate all of the dishonesties, deceptions, and sophistries of our current closed and static of so called human civilization and we will have a truly rational civilization that will cover the entire planet earth forever ,that ABFH thought we had, but I cannot do this alone. I need help to do this by others learning Dynamic Honesty. If anyone does this I think they will gain much more than they will by using sophistries, dishonesties, deceptions, and innuendos just like Mitchell and Best tried to do with me.

If anyone wants to help please learn to use critical thinking combined with lateral thinking and self-correcting and we can all help to change these systems and make a truly rational civilization that ABFH wants.

Greentea, Gina, and others I invite you all to embrace dynamic honesty. Don't use the sophistries of the NTs. Will you all help to build a truly rational civilization in which there are no more sophistries, no more innuendos, no more double talk, and we can all actually learn to develop dynamic love which is love that never stops growing? First, we would need to show this could be done by building our own society.

and again.

Hang in there, GreenTea.

You’re taking it better than I did.
“Catatonic” http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt91016.html
I think I’m almost ready to consider thinking about trying again. Maybe.

Several people at the beginning of this thread told you to “Just be yourself and they’ll love you.” I guess you weren’t weird enough.

I wouldn’t worry. Anyone who can get to page two in a thread like this, in a place like this, has got to be an Aspie. Anyone else would be driven mad long before they get there.

I hear bells ringing. It’s finally sinking in. I’ve never said any of that stuff out loud, so I figured it didn’t count. It’s just one of my dirty little secrets.

I hope you didn’t send it yet. Good stuff, but you need to put it in a drawer for a week or more and do some major editing. Unless you’re trying to get rid of her, in which case, fire at will.

That works for me. Sign me up.
I’m not into deities, but I believe in unconscious calculation.

I do. But that’s another rant for another time.

Lots. If I ever finish reading this thread, I’ll be searching your old posts.

Yep, that’s how it looks from here. ..It’s just a jump to the left, and then a step to the right… If I could do the song and dance, I wouldn’t be in the shrink’s office in the first place.

Just ask why he doesn't think you have it [if you can].

His answer will shed light on whether he's learned or not; you can post what he says here, and I'm sure I, and others like me can scour it for its accuracy.

At $ how much per hour?

No idea. It's probably good to ask why in the first session, and perhaps he did give reasons why; just saying, 'no,' is fairly simplistic (well, greatly), and I doubt any psychic worth his or her textbooks and prescription pad will give one word answers, unless of course they have an ASD.

An undiagnosed Aspie shrink in deep denial with an unconscious agenda?