Were we the Artisans of Old?

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This isn't entirely off topic, but what are some skills you guys have developed? I know that personally I can learn anything science related very quickly. In two weeks I've already picked up a plethora of the simpler programming languages for my class.

Also, do you think anything should change in society to better fit the Aspie career model?

My skills are rather modest. I work at a Helpdesk for a large grocery chain and take phone calls regarding the various software and hardware problems that occur. My strength is that we are evaluated much more on our form than on our troubleshooting skills.

i only love art, music and language. I become stressed with anything systematic or procedural and I dont do well at it.

Physics student (a long time ago!)
Electronics techie (former job)
Pilot (working on a PPL)
Computer programming
IT operations (networks servers... my current job)
Ironman triathlons (cycling, swimming, running)
Former military (expert shot, gearhead)
F-16 fighter operations (flying, cockpit systems, radar, tactics, etc...)
Survival skills (backpacking/hiking)
Web design (former job)
Photoshop skills/image manipulation
Quake deathmatch (top 100 in the World once upon a time)
Amateur astronomy
Ham radio
Writing (and reading what most consider boring authors Tolstoy is my favorite)


My design skills (or artistic skills in general) are average, but I'm very good to excellent at all the rest. It is all so easy Before I knew about AS I thought everyone around me was a bloody idiot. Now I know they are average and I'm not.

Well, I am mad as a hatter!

Meaning

Completely mad. This is now commonly understood to mean crazy, although the original meaning is unclear and may have meant annoyed.

Origin

Mercury used to be used in the making of hats. This was known to have affected the nervous systems of hatters, causing them to tremble and appear insane. A neurotoxicologist correspondent informs me that "Mercury exposure can cause aggressiveness, mood swings, and anti-social behaviour.", so that derivation is certainly plausible - although there's only that circumstantial evidence to support it.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/mad-as-a-hatter.html


I apologize profusely for this post. I just couldn't help myself.

And it was this that lead to an opening for European aspies. The study of warfare was that enabled aspies of the day to influence social order of the feudal lords as martial arts teachers (it is only recently that information on these old European martial art schools is surfacing). Consider etiquette for a moment. It is not something that an NT would make. They have no need for formalized rules of social behavior, we do.

Over the centuries, the cultural conditioning that aspie martial art masters instituted propagated to all levels of western society. It only first started to fall apart in 1960s, and then slowly. It took decades, but now the world is set up to favor NT behavior.

I see no evidence that this is true. The fact that there are formalized modes of social-behavior in even the most small scale and least institutionally complex of societies (hunters gatherers) indicates otherwise, since the large majority of people are NT. If NTs had no use for such behaviors, they would not be so pervasive to all known human cultures.

Maybe it is a matter of introversion and extraversion. The current work culture is geared towards extraverted people, whereas previously introverted qualities were more valued.

But there is a danger of looking back to an imaginary golden age when the workforce consisted of people chosen only for their craft and intellectual skills. To the extent that there was such a time, it was also a time when upper class and middle class non-disabled white males were dominant. But in Victorian Britain, people with aristocratic connections or who were one of the very small number of graduates could easily get a professional job - either in Britain or the British Empire. Graduates in Greek or Latin from the university of Oxford or Cambridge who would otherwise be unemployable, would be appointed as District Commissioners in India or other colonies in the Empire. John Bright, who was a leading British politician of that time, called the British Empire a vast scheme of outdoor relief for the upper class.

But the great majority of people worked in low skill and low paid occupations: as agricultural labourers, as navvies, as building labourers, as factory workers, as domestic servants, and from the latter half of the 19th century as shop workers. Women had much fewer employment oppportunities than men. Their role in life was to be wives and mothers. There were skilled and relatively well paid working class jobs, such as coal miner and train driver.

We didn't say it was better before. We said that today, for any kind of job, you need to sit 45 minutes with a 25-year old girl who will decide if you fit the Facebook ideal enough or not.

Maybe I spoke/wrote too inaccurately. There is also a subtle difference in style. Really, if you look at 18th and 19th century idea of etiquette, it is simply not instinctive to neurotipicals, and that suggests a different source. I was referring to a particular idea of etiquette (the Japanese version also fits the bill), that is formed in societies somewhat more advanced than hunter-gatherers (hunter-gatherers are beside the point here).

What source? There is no evidence that people with ASDs ruled over Victorian England. Etiquette of the time was not dissimilar to etiquette in the same time in other places.



Additionally the “style” of etiquette in Victorian England was not greatly different in style to the styles of etiquette before and after in the same place.


Advanced?

You might think hunter gatherer societies have nothing to do with your statement, but might this be because you do not know much about etiquette in such societies?

Etiquette in these societies is no more about instinct than etiquette in Victorian England. This can be determined by the contrary nature of etiquette from one cultural group to another. If it were instinct based, we would not find that in one culture it is very poor etiquette to not brag, while in some other society it is very poor etiquette to not put down one’s own achievements.

Cultural anthropologists have quite consistently found that etiquette is no less complex in smaller scale societies (such as hunter gatherer societies) than in larger or more structurally complex human societies, such as Victorian England. Etiquette is no more instinctual in such societies than it was in Victorian England.

Yes, when everyone are the same the only way to prove you are different is to act different. That means you have to learn how to act differently. Thus invented by NTs.
Social rules, the highranking in a pack never acts the same way as the lowranked.

My argument was not limited to Victorian England. Besides ruling is not required to greatly influence attitudes of the people of that day.


I was mostly referring to the level of formalization. It did create some level of equality between NT-s and aspies, mainly that both groups had to learn the rules consciously.


They were not considered in this thread in general, but, it is true, I know little about hunter-gatherers as they do not come into my sphere of interest.


I'm sure it always has touching points as rules of game theory remain fairly constant and all that. Are you suggesting that no other societies have aspies? Not being titularly on top of a society does not mean that you have no influence on the values of the society, to gain that influence you need to be in position to shape the values of those people, and my claim is that aspies in medieval times were in that position, and that they used it.

The difference is mostly how the rules of polite society where learned:

NTs would've be in de advantage if they had to be inferred from experience, if you couldn't 'look them up' in any book.
ASs would have been in the advantage if they where written down as an principle or clear rule.

Then there is the kind of rules that governed polite society:

NTs are in the advantage when showing (particular) emotions is considered good form. Naturally in such a society one will have to be considerate and attentive to the emotions shown by others. The most expressive will try to out do each other. A society that values emotional acts more then rational acts: If a good cause asks for money do they appeal to emotion: Do the use moving pictures, not statistics and reason. Children that grow up in an expressive society will most likely learn to equate the intensity of the expression to the intensity of the emotion. The drop outs are those who don't express themselves in the proper way, who show the wrong emotions or who can't express themselves expressively enough, or who just can't handle the intensity of others.

ASs are in the advantage when hiding emotional responses is considered good form. A society run by rules, not emotions. Naturally in such a society one will have to be considerate and attentive to the rules. A society that values rational acts more then emotional acts: If a good cause asks for money it will present a business plan: Statistics, projections, milestones. A logical, rational plan. Children that grown up in a rational society will most likely learn to control their emotions, to look for the reasons and to seek out rule based solutions to societies ills. The drop outs are those which can't control the expression of their emotions, who have difficulty with reasoning, with science, etc.

So you are completely unable to compare this style you think non NTs must have created, to the range of styles of etiquette that pervades human-societies?

You cannot describe any particular difference other than something about being formal, but in saying this you have no knowledge about the level of formality in other societies where there is no reason to believe non NT members of the population formulated or influenced the development of these etiquette rules?

It seems to me that you are making a broad statement that just “feels true” to you, without any of the knowledge necessary to actually know quite what you are talking about.

You forgot to mention the 25 year old girl is the hiring agent for the company, is totally girly-girl and NT and has trouble finding the 'on' switch for her computer.