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auntblabby
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27 May 2015, 6:56 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Truthfully, I don't believe even NT's all have their "theory of mind" in order. If somebody wants to be an ass when you're trying to provide assistance, then I think you should move on to something else.
There are times, in my mind, when I feel irritated when someone tries to offer me advice. I try my hardest not to show my irritation, since I know the good intentions of that someone.

:thumleft: TOM and presence of mind both need to be working together.



kraftiekortie
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27 May 2015, 6:58 pm

Yep...and good intentions.



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27 May 2015, 7:00 pm

I agree with the sentiment here that it really depends on who the person is, and also the context. Sometimes those phrases are okay. Personally, I'm usually alright with that type of response. If you were joking (actually joking), I want to know. I'm not going to waste my time being hurt about something that never actually happened.

This is something I'm trying to work on with the way I communicate with my husband though because I know it upsets him. It's hard to think of other things to say sometimes though. I like this from the website you linked:
First accept the feelings, then address the behavior.

But I'm not really clear on how to do this honestly. My instinct is to say "That's a stupid thing to freak out over" because it is a stupid thing to freak out over, but he usually knows that intellectually, so me stating it doesn't help him.

Generally speaking, I think it doesn't really matter how you intended it- it mostly just matters what the impact was. This is on a feminism website but I think it's relevant: http://everydayfeminism.com/2013/07/int ... ly-matter/


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kraftiekortie
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27 May 2015, 7:04 pm

I believe you could say "It's a stupid thing to freak out over" using slightly different words.

And make sure you convey to him that you know that he KNOWS this intellectually. I believe that helps.

And try to make it into a humorous moment--bring back some funny memories based upon the present situation.

He'd be more inclined to respond positively, since you did not "invalidate" him.



cavernio
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27 May 2015, 7:12 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I believe you could say "It's a stupid thing to freak out over" using slightly different words.

And make sure you convey to him that you know that he KNOWS this intellectually. I believe that helps.

And try to make it into a humorous moment--bring back some funny memories based upon the present situation.

He'd be more inclined to respond positively, since you did not "invalidate" him.


You are giving suggestions as to how to control or change someone. You seem to be missing the entirety of what invalidation is.


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kraftiekortie
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27 May 2015, 7:14 pm

Now...where'd you get that idea?

What I suggested is called "being diplomatic."



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27 May 2015, 7:15 pm

Rather than exclusively focus on the actual words people use, try to notice who - among the people you interact with regularly - trivialise what you say, discount what you say, or try to isolate you or your points of view. This is a shift to the tactics invalidators typically use, rather than the literal approach to the words that they use. Both matter - the words, the intentions behind them, and the pattern of behaviour.

But applying the "TID" analysis soon shows the pattern and if you find someone is doing this to you consistently, you are being disrespected and invalidated.

Invalidation is harmful, especially when it is sustained over time and aimed at one person by another. And invalidating the harm that invalidation does is itself a form of discounting!



auntblabby
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27 May 2015, 7:15 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Now...where'd you get that idea?

What I suggested is called "being diplomatic."

there are some people, in my experience, who interpret diplomacy as poo-poo'ing.



auntblabby
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27 May 2015, 7:18 pm

B19 wrote:
Invalidation is harmful, especially when it is sustained over time and aimed at one person by another. And invalidating the harm that invalidation does is itself a form of discounting!

in America, when somebody does that to us, we say "don't pee on my leg then tell me it's raining!"



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27 May 2015, 7:19 pm

I'm not "pooh-poohing" anything.

I don't think anybody would like it if somebody "flew off the handle" for no apparent reason. People must learn not to "fly off the handle" for any old reason. That's part of being civilized. I don't care what anybody says.

People are entitled to their opinion.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 27 May 2015, 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

auntblabby
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27 May 2015, 7:21 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I'm not "pooh-poohing" anything. I don't think anybody would like it if somebody "flew off the handle" at for no apparent reason.

I was not saying you were doing that, just that some people no matter how carefully one tries not to seem like it, nevertheless interpret things like that in that way.



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27 May 2015, 7:22 pm

Yep...they do.

And it could, quite possibly, not be productive for EITHER party.



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27 May 2015, 7:22 pm

There should be a balance of validation from others and lack of validation from others.
All validation all the time is as bad as no validation at all.


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auntblabby
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27 May 2015, 7:23 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Yep...they do. And it could, quite possibly, not be productive for EITHER party.

yeh, it usually is a downer.



auntblabby
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27 May 2015, 7:24 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
There should be a balance of validation from others and lack of validation from others.
All validation all the time is as bad as no validation at all.

"all validation, all the time" sounds like it would make a good cable tv channel :mrgreen:



rarebit
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27 May 2015, 7:28 pm

auntblabby wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
There should be a balance of validation from others and lack of validation from others.
All validation all the time is as bad as no validation at all.

"all validation, all the time" sounds like it would make a good cable tv channel :mrgreen:



I politely disagree! Sounds like it'd be boring, nice but boring!


What did Winston Churchill say, "If you're not standing on someone's toes then you're standing still"



Last edited by rarebit on 27 May 2015, 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.