The site where they BASH Aspie husband and wives. :O

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Yes we belittle and negatively stereotype them to the same degree they are about us. The difference is on here those posts will be criticized. The most you get out of them is one sentence that the husband is disabled and can't help himself, In this thread us unemphatic people have shown both great empathy and sympathy to even the most vicious of them.

On the topic I can definitely see myself as the husband being described. And that hurt.

Sure. But of course sometimes (let me emphasize that I'm going off on another tangent) we are simply mistaken about an NT's implications for the same reason NT's are often mistaken: technical vocabulary as opposed to popular vocabulary. Now in the OP's example clearly that person is making an unfair generalization about people on the autism spectrum.

What about psychology researchers writing how that ASD people have deficient empathy? Does that offend you? The fact is that by and large it is true, just not in the sense that most of us are thinking. Empathy involves accurate recognition of emotions (most of us have trouble gauging emotion especially through non-verbal cues, don't we?). We often conflate empathy with whether or not a person has any concern for the emotions of others, or whether or not someone is able to recognize and reciprocate emotion at all.

Of course "technical" vs "popular" was just one example and I'm trying to make a broader point here. There are numerous instances where what's actually going on is really very simple and not at all what we at first think. This is a problem for all people and a primary reason for people taking offense or feeling unfairly criticized or demeaned when nothing of the sort was actually meant.

I can see myself as that husband in a lot of way as well, it has a lot to do with the divorce. However, there were two sides to that coin and autistic aren't just damaged goods that shouldn't be in a relationship period. Neurotypical people can be just as bad and a lot worse as well.

Sometimes yes but not necessarily in this case because there are many threads in that particular forum that actually advise NT's and warn them not to have relationships with aspies, simply because they're aspies and there are also threads that directly compare us to narcissists (not simply imply it) and that is factually inaccurate.



What you aren't realising is that the "technical" and "popular" conceptions of empathy are 2 different things. I've tried to explain this before in that other thread about Simon Baron-Cohen's book where he talks about the empathy thing. Those researchers are not actually saying the we lack empathy, in the popular conception of the term, nor are they saying that it's deficient. What those researchers actually do is differentiate between what they refer to as 2 different kind's of empathy, namely "cognitive empathy" and "emotional empathy", where "cognitive empathy" is defined simply as the ability to read other people (maybe inferring their state of mind from non-verbal body language or cues etc.) and "emotional" or "effective empathy" is defined as caring about the emotions of other people and essentially getting an emotional reaction from them or feeling the same way that they are feeling as a reaction to their emotions.

What is actually being said from the technical standpoint by the researchers in ASD is that we have difficulty only with reading people (i.e. cognitive empathy) but we don't lack the ability to care about them (i.e. we still generally have what they refer to as emotional empathy) and are therefore still capable having an empathetic response. The popular conception of what empathy is, is mostly the caring about other people (emotional empathy), not ability to read other people (cognitive empathy).

When ASPartOfMe says that people in this thread have shown empathy towards the people in that forum, he is actually right but what it displays is emotional empathy which even those researchers say we have. What people generally do in the ASPartners forum is confuse difficulty in reading people with lack of caring and of course people with ASD's are going to find it hurtful when they suggest that we don't care about other people. I can show you many threads on there with people saying that we incapable of love and some even compiling a list "red flags" to look out for so that they can stay away from us when pursuing relationships as though we don't deserve relationships because we are on the ASD spectrum.



That's the general sentiment in that forum that we shouldn't be in relationships. What a wonderful bunch they are, don't you think?

I think cognitive empathy is being shown here. Statements such they got into the relation with a loving person but now the husband lost them as a special interest leaving them baffled, from there point a view we are narcissists, they are venting shows not just feeling sorry but understanding their emotions and thinking.



With a the divorce rate the way it is shows there are plenty of NT's that are not capable and should not be in relationships.


Venting is one thing but unchecked hate that site is going to get somebody psychically hurt or worse. Mentally it alreasy is making wounds deeper.

Yes, there is some cognitive empathy as well, though that's not really as difficult on an internet forum where we can just read what people have written as opposed to real life where we also have to interpret non-verbal cues like body language and facial expressions as well. Cognitive empathy is about inferring emotions and thinking without directly being told. People on the autism spectrum may generally be said to have low cognitive empathy but there's a wide range of ability in cognitive empathy even within the autistic population and it can even be improved, which they try to do in some therapies, like for example when they show autistic children pictures of different facial expressions and try to show how to infer emotions from them. When I said people in this thread were displaying emotional empathy, I was talking about the fact they most certainly were feeling sorry for them in response to that understanding.

I think we've demonstrated that we are not narcissists because a narcissist would generally not have any emotional empathy or feel sorry for anyone else at all and only care about their own self-interest.

So someone has gone to that ASPartners forum again, asking for advice for how to make her relationship work. Predictably, and not surprisingly, they are all responding with "flee the nasty aspie!" instead of just giving her advice on how to support her aspie partner and gain support from him. How wonderful:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/aspartners/messages/?msg=13366.1

This is why I prefer them to come to WP or go somewhere similar, instead of going to a forum like ASPartners.

I've had a look at this forum and don't have any problem with it. If we can vent about NTs, they can vent about us, end of. It doesn't bother me.

Admittedly I'm biased though, as my dad is almost certainly an undiagnosed Aspie himself. And he is a very, very difficult man to live with. It's not a question of being honest with him, because he isn't honest with himself. You can't reason with somebody who is basically irrational and in denial.

We should all stay the hell away from ASPartners.

My husband has banned me from the site.

He says that they will never do or say anything to help me, and that all I am doing there is borrowing trouble, taking on problems that we don't have, hurting myself, and messing up our marriage.

I think he is right. We should stay away from ASPartners.

They're not there to help us, and we can't really glean a whole lot of useful information from their experiences with someone who is not us.

Of course - where else would it be? In the extracellular fluid?

It's fine to rant but then if someone goes in there and simply looking for information about an aspie boyfriend or girlfriend instead of just going there to rant, then that is not the time nor place for ranting. I've never seen anyone obtaining useful information there, the only thing they ever do is "warn" people to stay away from us and they are out to break up relationships instead of giving people information on how to make them work. They are not interested in providing useful information about Asperger's or the autism spectrum.

Those comments are exactly why I needed to have a girlfriend on the spectrum(which I do) instead of an NT one.

Exactly, ASPartOfMe. No matter how much any aspie on here generalizes NTs, someone will always object. I also have to add that I've seen threads here be closed for saying far less than is said in the threads on Delphi forum, where apparently anything goes, by the looks of it. That?s a big difference! And that?s despite us being 1% of the population and getting frustrated on a level they can?t even imagine.


Also, aren't they supposed to be the experts on socially appropriate? Those posts are not rants about a husband who has upset or hurt them; they are attacks on an entire group of people without anyone reacting with anything but understanding. The members are breaking their wrists applauding each other.
And come to think of it, why are all of them female? Where are the NT men with aspie partners?


I tried to get the correct link to this Delphi post but I couldn't, the net address stayed the same. But the post I'm addressing now can be found on the left side under "Introduce Yourself". Thread title: Trying to Stay Free
Post 2 is ?charmingly? talking about how to trick your AS partner if they don't wanna comply to take an online aspie test.
Post 3:
Now, if someone goes "ow" I would look at them, expecting them to then realize that I was waiting for them to go on and tell me what was wrong. To me, my looking at them is a cue to tell me what's wrong. Such masters of interaction and non-verbal signs!

Also: Under "Books & Your Reviews" see the thread "In Sheep's Clothing" where the OP claims to reveal a therapist's point of view. Apparently we are demons.

I visited aspartners a while ago, it?s toxic.
The sub forum is for venting and the emotions driving it are powerfully all consuming, it?s best avoided. The unbalanced nature is unfortunate; understanding is not the aim for this small group.

It doesn't surprise me that people test us, they have always done it even before AS was known. My husband told me people will say things to test you. People will also do things to test you to see what you do. Now those women on there are doing it to see who is aspie. It looks to me they label anyone as aspie.

Last edited by League_Girl on 04 Oct 2014, 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I participate in that forum.

There are a couple of things that you have to realise about any story on there.

1) People are angry and upset. They are venting. They feel it's a safe space so say things that they wouldn't say to someone diagnosed with AS to their face (at least most wouldn't, I hope so)
2) A lot of times whole stories aren't told because they've posted before, so you wouldn't expect to get every detail of every AS characteristic a spouse might have.

And there are a couple of other things that some of you have picked up on:

1) not everyone who posts there actually has an AS spouse. Some of them have been wrongly 'spouse-diagnosed' - some descriptions and I think - hmmm that's not AS.
2) some of the regular contributors are venomous and frankly a little unbalanced. I have seen some post NT= good and Aspie = bad. That's clearly not the case.

But the forum still has value for me because there is a group of people who can understand what I am living with and who can sympathise and empathise with my troubles.

I freely admit that I have 'wife-diagnosed' my husband. But I also feel pretty sure about it and reading widely and coming to WP have made me feel more certain that he is definitely what would have been Aspergers before the definition was removed.

You can choose to be angry about what one person has posted. But shredding her without knowing her is certainly worse than her shredding someone who she has lived with and knows.

I know what she means about 'no longer being the special interest' - it's weird, it hurts. When you're dropped in favour of (in my case D&D) it stings.

I know too what she means about not wanting to divorce to live in poverty. I'm no gold-digger. I work (that woman works as well). I have supported my husband financially through a PhD and a period of unemployement. Through most of our marriage I made more and sometimes much more money than he did. I don't now. But I'm not a gold digger. Assuming that a woman is a gold digger because she's worried about the financial impact of divorce when she has children is pretty damn sexist.

I will have to look after my son. I don't want him to be poor and I don't want to be poor either. In that woman's case it's about sustaining a shared business. In my case it's about living in one of the highest cost housing markets in the world.

I'm miserable in my marriage and a lot of the reason it's not fixable is because of AS. Is this my husband's fault? No. Are there things within his power to do differently? Yes. Is everything in our marriage all his fault? No. But is there's a big portion of the problem that rightly sits with him and his lack of ability to communicate, empathise, provide emotional support or focus on others.

What I don't understand about these aspie spouse stories is this: did you not recognize these characteristics before you got married? Actually, that's something I wonder about a lot of marriage-gone-wrong stories.