New research brings autism screening closer to reality

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Orwell
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12 Jan 2009, 12:57 am

undefineable wrote:

If you accept that there's no higher power or ultimate meaning, there's also no ultim8 morality. But humans have evolved sympathy (as well as empathy), which is why nowthat I'm mature - I cry at TV about the holocaust :cry:

. It's hard to feel that sympathy for a tiny embryo, by the way; genocide has become a loaded term that most non-religious people just wouldn't apply to such things.

Well, I do not share your theological views, and even among those who do, I don't think the majority of atheists subscribe to such callous moral nihilism. Genocide is an accurate term to describe the systematic annihilation of a particular group of people.

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Ticker
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12 Jan 2009, 1:02 am

garyww wrote:

Here's a study about jobs that is very upbeat and shows employment levels close to normal.
http://www.autismvox.com/study-on-adult ... ers-in-mn/
I'm still looking for big governemental thing.

All the articles says about working is:

"They’ve been successful in obtaining employment."
That doesn't say what percentage and "successful" is too subjective in this article to mean anything. It goes on to say 45% go on to attend college. Now that's not a high percentage these days when a degree is required to get the majority of jobs out there. A degree even means nothing because its personality not degree that wins most job interviews.

sinsboldly
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12 Jan 2009, 1:07 am

Ticker wrote:

CanyonWind wrote:

I think some of us might be overestimating our contribution to "progress."

I'm not convinced that all that many scientists, artists, and musicians are aspies or otherwise autistic.

I have to agree. I hear lots of Aspies trying to make themselves feel good, as if they belong to some really cool group, by claiming this or that celebrity or genius scientist has Aspergers. Or that Silicon Valley is nothing but Aspies. But truth is we don't know that. If Silicon is run by Aspies then its undiagnosed Aspies.

I hear people at Autism meetings proclaiming how much we contribute to society, but how can anyone be so ridiculous to proclaim that when only 7% of adult Aspies ever hold down a job? Few of us are out in the garage building rocket ships either. Most are glued to their video game or else glued to the computer on Wrong Planet while living with their parents. I really don't know of any Aspie who is that successful or who has contributed a darn thing to society, myself included. To be honest we are a huge drain to the system. If 7% of us are working, that means 93% are on public assistance. By numbers alone that suggests we really don't contribute enough to society for it to be a loss if we all ceased to exist. Of that 7% less than 1% are even scientists or inventors.

I have never been to an 'Autism Meeting' so I haven't been able to stand up on my chair and say "There are thousands of people that have no idea they are Aspies, so how can you quote statistics about what or how all of THEM work or what ever?"

Thank you! I will be here all week, tip your waitresses and try the veal.

Merle

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undefineable
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12 Jan 2009, 1:09 am

Kangoogle wrote:

You realise that the average person (read NT) uses a tiny fraction of their actual brainpower

Maybe auties use even less

Anyhow, it's a question of how much of your brain you're using at any one time; the brain doesn't have enough resources to light up all at once.

Kangoogle wrote:

and anyway intelligence is really the number of connections formed, not connections between regions.

I never mentioned intelligence (which, by the way, I feel has little relevance to one's usefulness to others); systemic complexity relates mainly to 'inter' connections.

garyww wrote:

I can't believe some of the stuff I've read in this thread.
"We're inferior because we have fewer multi-layer structured process going on in our head"? I don't know where that one came from but I've got hundreds of such things going on in my head constantly as do a lot of people I know who who are on the spectrum.

I'd love it if you could prove me wrong, seriously - If your systemizing processes are indeed of comparable sophistication to NT empathising processes, then maybe Borat's cousin was right after all

By the way, garyww, whining is often a form of begging to be put out onto the ice (see some earlier posts from our pro-cure friends), though I'm past that.

garyww
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12 Jan 2009, 1:18 am

I can show you my brain scan pictures but I'd rather not.
Here's some interesting links about employment figures for 'real' type jobs only:
These guys are looking for victims to study.
http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/autismandemployment/

This is the British report about 6% Autistics and 12% Aspies being employed
http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:od ... d=33&gl=us

Environmental Culprit causing Autism
http://www.genengnews.com/news/bnitem.a ... e=47810842
I just threw this one in since it was typical of Kalifonia

This is a Google link to a book but the study figures are on the linked page
http://books.google.com/books?id=aOkdrE ... &ct=result

This last one is interesting as the study only looked at autistic people with an average IQ of 84 gainfully employed and the figures were 21% in Japan and 38% in canada.

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undefineable
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12 Jan 2009, 1:20 am

Orwell wrote:

I don't think the majority of atheists subscribe to such callous moral nihilism. Genocide is an accurate term to describe the systematic annihilation of a particular group of people.

I just laid it on the line; an atheist like me who's making a consistent argument will simply say that morality is an evolved system of empathic reactions that ensures we get an easy ride among our neighbours. That's why a genocide of adults will usually seem far more wrong than a genocide of embryos.

I'm actually a very loving person, believe it or not.

garyww
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12 Jan 2009, 1:25 am

Watch out NASA. Here come the Aspies

I couldn't resist.

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garyww
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12 Jan 2009, 1:29 am

From what I can gather those low employment figures come from the UK and include both low and high functioning autistics that are under the 'supported' (government funded) work programs and not in private industry or self employment so the 6% and 12% figures are pretty poor to be using for a real-life scenario.

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Ticker
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12 Jan 2009, 1:45 am

garyww wrote:

I can show you my brain scan pictures but I'd rather not.

If you change your mind, I'd love to see your scans. I'm into that sort of thing. I have all 70 films of my MRI at home. Which scan did you get? I'm trying to get a SPECT scan arranged.

Ticker
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12 Jan 2009, 1:53 am

So what would you geniuses have us do? March on Cohen's office with pitchfork and super-soaker in hand?

I don't think he will get too far with his plan. For one thing it rings of Nazi-laced propaganda. Yet he isn't fulfulling his requirements of behavior for Cohens as set forth in the Torah.

garyww
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12 Jan 2009, 1:53 am

Ticker, I had spect done, and for Indefineable an embryo (24th week) has far more neurons than an adult so which brain is better worth saving.

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Ticker
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12 Jan 2009, 2:14 am

Gary I'm not for aborting embryos of any kind. I just don't believe in the self-importance so many Aspies have that somehow the world & scientific invention would cease to exist without us. I don't think most of us contribute that much is all I'm saying.

I don't like the fact DS people are such a rarity because of the genetic testing. Not that I would wish being DS on anyone because it does appear to be a hard life they live, but its sad that they have been done away with. Its kinda weird I used to see DS kids in school and adults out in public, but never see any DS people anymore except for the elderly ones. I think they are actually nicer than the average NT because unless they get tainted by dirty NT's then they retain a child-like innocence and are very honest and decent citizens. A lot of DS behave better than high functioning Aspies yet the DS are viewed as second class citizens.

Orwell
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12 Jan 2009, 2:50 am

Ticker wrote:

Baron-Cohen has actually been advocating keeping us around, though arguably for the wrong reasons. The person I want to pitchfork right about now is Vivienne Nathanson.

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Padium
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12 Jan 2009, 7:29 am

Ticker wrote:

garyww wrote:

I can show you my brain scan pictures but I'd rather not.

If you change your mind, I'd love to see your scans. I'm into that sort of thing. I have all 70 films of my MRI at home. Which scan did you get? I'm trying to get a SPECT scan arranged.

You had an MRI??? I had one once and I had to be knocked out for it, I just couldn't bear the noise the machine made.

Alicat1989
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12 Jan 2009, 8:02 am

Think of it this way if this 'cure' for autism/autism specturm was made there wud not be ppl like us on this wrongplanet wudnt exsist eistein wudn't have been alive.

this is so horrible especially if u think ur parents cud have aborted u just coz u wudn't be normal. designer babies have started and it sucks.

rdos
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12 Jan 2009, 8:11 am

Employment facts from Aspie-quiz:

Total population:
Aspies: 1288, NTs: 814

Students:
Aspies: 410 (32%)
NTs: 215 (26%)

Unemployed:
Aspies: 162 (13%)
NTs: 62 (8%)

Pension:
Aspies: 46 (4%)
NTs: 7 (1%)

Real jobs:
Aspies: 582 (45%)
NTs: 478 (59%)

IOW, in this sample, 14% more NTs than Aspies have real jobs.

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