Is autism the basis for the Jungian archetype Wise-Fool?

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www.mythsdreamssymbols.com/majorarchetypes.html


The trickster is a very important archetype in the history of man. He is a god, yet he is not. He is the wise-fool. It is he, through his creations that destroy, points out the flaws in carefully constructed societies of man. He rebels against authority, pokes fun at the overly serious, creates convaluted schemes - that may or may not work - plays with the Laws of the Universe and is sometimes his own worst enemy. He exists to question, to cause us to question & not accept things blindly. He appears when a way of thinking becomes outmoded needs to be torn down built anew. He is the Destroyer of Worlds at the same time the savior of us all. In dreams {and myth} the trickster can be seen as
# The Fool
# The Magician
# The Clown
# The Jester
# The Villian
# The Destroyer


Do you think the autistic is represented by an archetype? Just musing here.

Well, as long as we're just musing.

In my Tarot deck* The fool is depicted and represented as a woman with a far away look who is singing to herself and beating a drum while wandering near the edge of a cliff. A small dog jumps at her skirt trying to warn her of the danger of which she is unaware.


Meaning: Blissful ignorance, optimism, naive innocence. Disregard for potential risks. Foolishness and eccentricity, a wandering away from what society considers sane and normal.

So yeah, the Fool is a very good analogy in very many ways. We may appear foolish to others, especially since wandering away from the herd and what society considers sane and normal is viewed as foolish. It's a risk we must take though, and I am willing to play the fool, or be called a fool, if marching or dancing to the beat of a different drum (my own of course) makes me happy and takes me where I want to go in search of my bliss, my life's meaning and fulfillment. It's not so much that we disregard the risks, but we go our own way in spite of them.

And yes, we are known to have a faraway look to our eyes and also for talking or singing to ourselves. Also, many of us are not very street wise, are easily taken advantage of by unscrupulous types, which could very easily set us up as targets of abuse or as victims of criminal types and hence, danger.

What a fun thread. Thanks for starting it.

* Golden Tarot by Kat Black

Dharma Comedian

I agree that the Tarot image of the Fool is a very comprehensive archetypal representation of the HFA. Proving that we've been around and making our mark on human society for a long, long time.

But then, I've long thought that Autism is likely what gives the Shaman and the Wise-Woman those qualities that set them apart from the tribe and cause them to be revered as more sacred, gifted or evolved. They may see lights and hear sounds that others do not.

I think the wise fool could be seen as foolish by society because the fool ignores social conventions but in reality is the wiser one because he knows these conventions are only relative to their time. It may seem silly but in centuries past, wars have been waged over this stuff. Imagine how many people died because the social convention at that time was that no female could ascend the throne.

Exactly! And the Fool was valued by royalty for their very ability to amuse by mocking and satirizing the inanities of social convention. The first comedians - as George Carlin pointed out, he considered that his job - "Occupation: Foole".

Didn't ever seem to actually change anything though, did it? Social convention continued to thrive, even if it mutated slightly from time to time. So's who're the real fools?

Daniel the destroyer just fits me.

I've loved Jungian stuff for a long time by now. just speaking straight out here .. I feel Gollum in Lord of the Rings is a very typical Trickster. The ultimate good guy, actually. I mean he's the one saving the world at the end .. yet being sneaky and shifty throughout. never really taking sides.

No, I don't feel the Trickster nor Gollum for that matter are particularly autistic .. (-: But maybe the Autistic is becoming an archetype of its own? Or maybe several .. I mean as knowledge and opinons and experience of autism keep increasing in our day and age ...

What strikes me these days is thinking of The Buddha .. sitting there in solitude and feeling ever better about himself (if I got that right?) ..isn't that a typically AS or autistic trait? or behaviour.

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Yes, I can see how the Fool & the Magician could be applied to those w/ HFA. Everyone else covered the reasons.

Woodfish wrote:

I was just Googling again and came up with a mention of GIMPEL the FOOL by Isaac Bashevis Singer. I know I read that years ago. Singer was wonderful and I was lucky enough to hear him speak when I was still in college. He used a lot of archetypal themes in his stories.

Gimpel the Fool Summary

"Gimpel the Fool," opens with Gimpel, the narrator, announcing that he is called a fool but does not think of himself as one. Others see him as a fool, he says, because he is "easy to take in," He is not a fighter, he reasons, so he tries to ignore them. Even so, he admits that "they take advantage of me," thus demonstrating he understands how others see him and is not as foolish as he seems. Gimpel is an orphan being raised by a grandfather who is "already bent to the grave," so the townspeople turn him over to a baker. In such a public occupation, nearly all the villagers have had the opportunity to fool him at least once.

When Rietze the Candle-dipper tells him his parents have risen from the grave and are looking for him, Gimpel knows full well this cannot be, but he goes outside to look just in case: "What did I stand to lose just by looking?'' This incident creates such an uproar that he vows not to believe anything else, but that does not work either. He is confused and turns to the rabbi for advice. The rabbi tells Gimpel, "It is written, better to be a fool all your days than for one hour to be evil. You are not a fool. They are the fools. For he who causes his neighbor to feel shame loses Paradise himself."

Gimpel considers leaving town, but the people will not hear of it. Instead, they decide to fix him up with a wife. He sees several flaws in Elka, his prospective bride, but the townspeople tell him his perceptions are wrong. Elka's "bastard" son is really her little brother, and her limp is "deliberate, from coyness."... » Complete Gimpel the Fool Summary


[url=http://]www.enotes.com/gimpel-fool[/url]

The rabbi tells Gimpel, "It is written, better to be a fool all your days than for one hour to be evil. You are not a fool. They are the fools. For he who causes his neighbor to feel shame loses Paradise himself."


I like that.

I just got a tarot deck and was wondering if any of you reached stumbling blocks regarding limited intuition and lack of focus while getting accustomed to reading them?

I am sure the prevalence of Aspie interest in the Cards is widespread, since we always lean towards the mystical and fantastic.

But on the subject, the fool represents us very well, the very naive in some respects, but Jesus said for us to be as children, so close to God and therefore so wise. I could elaborate more but I am very sleepy.

PhilipWHolland wrote:

I'm still very new to WP .. big motivation for me is still getting used to make posts at all .. never mind the content .. (-:

what popped up reading about Gimpel the Fool was just this (silly?) thing .. the more a person is part of a social structure .. i suspect the less they will feel and be conscious of their own personal darker sides .. and their darker sides will instead be visible for them through the collective's Shadow .. dark side .. as in a scapegoat, for example.

as a more or maybe almost completely solitary person .. one has to be all the sides unto oneself, if that makes any sense .. one will have to also face one's less desireable aspects. i feel maybe that's the appeal for autsistics wih the Fool. He's so isolated. So visible. standing out. Not merged into the collective.

maybe we autistics have to serve as both the Fool and the Genius to the Collective .. ? (that's pretty much my history anyway) .. I mean being so clearly NOT merged with the Blob .. the social structures most people bedwell.


thanks for the "involuntary Buddhist" thing, Aimless (-: sounds very spot on to me.


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