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Hyperfocus Social Cues=Same Genotype, Different Phenotype?

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DGuru
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10 Aug 2011, 4:08 am

I know someone who definitely doesn't have Asperger's(well not phenotypically anyways) since his social skills are extremely good. He says he notices very small details in people's social cues that other people don't pick up on and so is good at socializing with just about anybody he wants to socialize with. He's very friendly and likeable. It's hard to imagine ever being mad at him.

From how he describes it and how he acts sounds like he has Asperger's except for the essential symptom of social difficulty. He actually has no idea what his condition is called. This got me thinking. Maybe physically it works the same, but his "special interest" is reading social cues, causing him not to fit the label "Asperger's" or to fall under any "Autistic Spectrum Disorder" simply because his hyperfocus causes him to be very good at social cues.

He has lots of habits and rules like Asperger's. Seems to have sensitive senses too. He also has GI problems. But no problems with social skills, just the opposite.

If hyperfocus can turn that symptom on its head can it turn other symptoms on their heads too? I used to have horrible GI problems but through paying attention to my body, particularly my stomach but also how it all works as a whole I've become better at mentally calming my stomach and GI tract down and can eat a lot more things a lot more often than I was able to before. I'm also noticing that my physical clumsiness improves dramatically during periods where I'm intently focused on working on body-moving activities like dancing, exercise, or sex.

I've come to the conclusion that we can all have what ever we want, we just need to immerse ourselves in it and let ourselves have it. Give it time and it is ours.



purchase
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10 Aug 2011, 6:14 am

I am extremely sensitive to other people's social cues as well. I think what may happen is that everyone on the spectrum is more sensitive than usual to them but for some it's so intense they need to shut off that emotional understanding or else they'd be too overwhelmed to function. Which I know from experience, other people's social cues transmit strong emotions to me and often leave me nonfunctional in various ways.



izzeme
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10 Aug 2011, 6:51 am

this is possible if someones special interest becomes social interaction, body language or something simular.
with the typical ASD research and application skills, it is very likely that someone with the correct interest would become even better at non-verbal communication then NTs could ever be



Mdyar
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10 Aug 2011, 7:02 am

DGuru wrote:
I know someone who definitely doesn't have Asperger's(well not phenotypically anyways) since his social skills are extremely good. He says he notices very small details in people's social cues that other people don't pick up on and so is good at socializing with just about anybody he wants to socialize with. He's very friendly and likeable. It's hard to imagine ever being mad at him.

From how he describes it and how he acts sounds like he has Asperger's except for the essential symptom of social difficulty. He actually has no idea what his condition is called. This got me thinking. Maybe physically it works the same, but his "special interest" is reading social cues, causing him not to fit the label "Asperger's" or to fall under any "Autistic Spectrum Disorder" simply because his hyperfocus causes him to be very good at social cues.

He has lots of habits and rules like Asperger's. Seems to have sensitive senses too. He also has GI problems. But no problems with social skills, just the opposite.

If hyperfocus can turn that symptom on its head can it turn other symptoms on their heads too? I used to have horrible GI problems but through paying attention to my body, particularly my stomach but also how it all works as a whole I've become better at mentally calming my stomach and GI tract down and can eat a lot more things a lot more often than I was able to before. I'm also noticing that my physical clumsiness improves dramatically during periods where I'm intently focused on working on body-moving activities like dancing, exercise, or sex.

I've come to the conclusion that we can all have what ever we want, we just need to immerse ourselves in it and let ourselves have it. Give it time and it is ours.


DGuru, one doesn't have to have "body language impairment" to meet the criteria.

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I've come to the conclusion that we can all have what ever we want, we just need to immerse ourselves in it and let ourselves have it. Give it time and it is ours.


Whoa. Do we have the (free) will to do anything?

Your post has philosophical implications:
Isn't the choice or "interest" / desire that one has or makes indicates the ability to do something, e.g: Say, does someone become a concert muscian because they just put their mind to do it, or let alone play a musical instrument? Paint? Play professional sports? Become a genius?

One doesn't develop "hyperfocus" by consciously deciding to do something. The decision is there unconsciously to hyperfocus due to an underlying "ability."

All "choices" are made "behind the scenes."



Mummy_of_Peanut
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10 Aug 2011, 7:34 am

purchase wrote:
I am extremely sensitive to other people's social cues as well. I think what may happen is that everyone on the spectrum is more sensitive than usual to them but for some it's so intense they need to shut off that emotional understanding or else they'd be too overwhelmed to function. Which I know from experience, other people's social cues transmit strong emotions to me and often leave me nonfunctional in various ways.


This is me too. Also, I'm pretty sure I can tell when people are lying or exaggerating, which adds to the awkwardness of social situations. I find it very difficult to tell someone my thoughts and would instead become very quiet and look for more clues to their insincerity. I don't know what people then think of me; I don't think they know they've been sussed.



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10 Aug 2011, 7:38 am

Mdyar wrote:
Whoa. Do we have the (free) will to do anything?

Your post has philosophical implications:
Isn't the choice or "interest" / desire that one has or makes indicates the ability to do something, e.g: Say, does someone become a concert muscian because they just put their mind to do it, or let alone play a musical instrument? Paint? Play professional sports? Become a genius?

One doesn't develop "hyperfocus" by consciously deciding to do something. The decision is there unconsciously to hyperfocus due to an underlying "ability."

All "choices" are made "behind the scenes."


Hyperfocus doesn't happen in a vaccuum. It is influenced by the surrounding environment and internal mental state. I find the most effective way to promote the development of a new special interest is by associating it to old ones. The more primary it is the greater the effect of association.

I believe in free will but I also believe in determinism. We make choices but we make them based off of our best guess of what to do based on what we know from our senses(both internal and external) and what we have made out of our senses. Understanding how to influence your own psychology by manipulating your environment(internal and external) helps you have more control.



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10 Aug 2011, 7:55 am

the social skills can be learned to NT level. mainstream autism psychiatry doesn't know how to do this yet



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10 Aug 2011, 8:08 am

Mummy_of_Peanut wrote:
purchase wrote:
I am extremely sensitive to other people's social cues as well. I think what may happen is that everyone on the spectrum is more sensitive than usual to them but for some it's so intense they need to shut off that emotional understanding or else they'd be too overwhelmed to function. Which I know from experience, other people's social cues transmit strong emotions to me and often leave me nonfunctional in various ways.


This is me too. Also, I'm pretty sure I can tell when people are lying or exaggerating, which adds to the awkwardness of social situations. I find it very difficult to tell someone my thoughts and would instead become very quiet and look for more clues to their insincerity. I don't know what people then think of me; I don't think they know they've been sussed.


Exactly. And to them their lies/exaggerations are no big deal, normal social intercourse (I hate using that word cause it has immediate sexual connotations but obviously I just mean interaction here), necessary for harmonious societal functioning, so they deny it, maybe even to themselves, that they're doing "false" things but I see it as clearly and loudly as anything when they're not being genuine.



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10 Aug 2011, 8:52 am

purchase wrote:
I am extremely sensitive to other people's social cues as well. I think what may happen is that everyone on the spectrum is more sensitive than usual to them but for some it's so intense they need to shut off that emotional understanding or else they'd be too overwhelmed to function. Which I know from experience, other people's social cues transmit strong emotions to me and often leave me nonfunctional in various ways.


That's my problem, also. Kind of like my other sensory issues, but it results from social stuff. The emotional response to social cues seems amplified and I'm unable to handle too much of it. I think I'd have more success if my response to social interaction could be dampened somewhat.



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10 Aug 2011, 1:41 pm

I don't believe I have a problem "picking up" social cues, but I'm not confident that I completely understand what is meant by "social cues".



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10 Aug 2011, 11:23 pm

DGuru wrote:
Mdyar wrote:
Whoa. Do we have the (free) will to do anything?

Your post has philosophical implications:
Isn't the choice or "interest" / desire that one has or makes indicates the ability to do something, e.g: Say, does someone become a concert muscian because they just put their mind to do it, or let alone play a musical instrument? Paint? Play professional sports? Become a genius?

One doesn't develop "hyperfocus" by consciously deciding to do something. The decision is there unconsciously to hyperfocus due to an underlying "ability."

All "choices" are made "behind the scenes."


Hyperfocus doesn't happen in a vaccuum. It is influenced by the surrounding environment and internal mental state. I find the most effective way to promote the development of a new special interest is by associating it to old ones. The more primary it is the greater the effect of association.

I believe in free will but I also believe in determinism. We make choices but we make them based off of our best guess of what to do based on what we know from our senses(both internal and external) and what we have made out of our senses. Understanding how to influence your own psychology by manipulating your environment(internal and external) helps you have more control.



Some may read body language through practice, and by developing algorithms for this, but I disagree that anyone could do it (or "anything") if they put their minds to it..

The "desire" to do something or to 'like something', to develop an interest in it, arises from what? Certainly a "decision," but where does this notion or inclination to "decide" originate? Do we consciously decide to one day pick up a guitar and strum it and develop it into a talent? It looks as though this is what is happening and I hear people say, "if I want to do something all I have to do is put my mind to it and it's done." "I can do anything."

That may partly be true for them because of a huge underlying potential.

But the trick or illusion is that we 'just' don't "decide" not to do something, (say play a guitar, do sports,etc). We are unable to "decide" to do "this," are incapable of "deciding," due to inability.
The decision "to do" starts subconsciously. There isn't a decision to "not to do." I can't decide to dislike music anymore than I can decide to become an extrovert.

I have applied some personal "psychology" with my executive function issues, and I've developed workarounds"cognitively" through will power/meditation, but I think it would be myopic on my part if I thought this would be universal.

I appreciate your positivity in your posts, though. I do have a prejudice against notions: "because I can do something you can to."

It just isn't real . I don't want this post to sound negative.

Keep posting. :)



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10 Aug 2011, 11:41 pm

What I've found is that most people I can't read at all, but a small minority of people I pick up tiny details that they're not trying to communicate. It gets more complicated when I can read tiny details in people, but miss major cues - which tends to be the case for people I'm close too (no matter how long I've known them, it might be I met this person, we clicked, and it was an instant friendship).

The average person, I'll not be able to relate to, pick up non-verbal communication or anything of the sort.

Someone I'm close to I'll be able to tell people that while she walked away this person in particular should go talk to her in 5 minutes, but not before that point, completely intuitively. At the same time someone I'm this close to I still won't be able to tell if they are frustrated at something not working, angry at me, or tired.

We tend to put it as I have the same sum of ability to read people, its just that 99% of my ability to read people goes to <1% of the population.



DGuru
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12 Sep 2011, 4:52 pm

Mdyar wrote:
DGuru wrote:
Mdyar wrote:
Whoa. Do we have the (free) will to do anything?

Your post has philosophical implications:
Isn't the choice or "interest" / desire that one has or makes indicates the ability to do something, e.g: Say, does someone become a concert muscian because they just put their mind to do it, or let alone play a musical instrument? Paint? Play professional sports? Become a genius?

One doesn't develop "hyperfocus" by consciously deciding to do something. The decision is there unconsciously to hyperfocus due to an underlying "ability."

All "choices" are made "behind the scenes."


Hyperfocus doesn't happen in a vaccuum. It is influenced by the surrounding environment and internal mental state. I find the most effective way to promote the development of a new special interest is by associating it to old ones. The more primary it is the greater the effect of association.

I believe in free will but I also believe in determinism. We make choices but we make them based off of our best guess of what to do based on what we know from our senses(both internal and external) and what we have made out of our senses. Understanding how to influence your own psychology by manipulating your environment(internal and external) helps you have more control.



Some may read body language through practice, and by developing algorithms for this, but I disagree that anyone could do it (or "anything") if they put their minds to it..

The "desire" to do something or to 'like something', to develop an interest in it, arises from what? Certainly a "decision," but where does this notion or inclination to "decide" originate? Do we consciously decide to one day pick up a guitar and strum it and develop it into a talent? It looks as though this is what is happening and I hear people say, "if I want to do something all I have to do is put my mind to it and it's done." "I can do anything."

That may partly be true for them because of a huge underlying potential.

But the trick or illusion is that we 'just' don't "decide" not to do something, (say play a guitar, do sports,etc). We are unable to "decide" to do "this," are incapable of "deciding," due to inability.
The decision "to do" starts subconsciously. There isn't a decision to "not to do." I can't decide to dislike music anymore than I can decide to become an extrovert.

I have applied some personal "psychology" with my executive function issues, and I've developed workarounds"cognitively" through will power/meditation, but I think it would be myopic on my part if I thought this would be universal.

I appreciate your positivity in your posts, though. I do have a prejudice against notions: "because I can do something you can to."

It just isn't real . I don't want this post to sound negative.

Keep posting. :)


Choice is complex. It's not you either have to be able to make a decision directly or not at all.

I'm not talking about "I want X. Bam, I've decided to do/have X and now I have it." I'm talking about analyzing it and figuring it out.

I've learned a lot more with this self-psychoanalysis and it seems like my form of Asperger's is because I'm not sure where to direct my attention in order to receive social information, but if my attention is directed in the right place I get it, sometimes even things most people would miss.

I've logically concluded that the way to solve this problem is to learn where to direct my senses according to the surrounding environment depending on what information I need at the time.



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12 Sep 2011, 5:10 pm

I'm pretty adept at picking up micro expressions and other non verbal cues. I can often tell if someone is in a bad mood by their posture. That is probably hyper vigilance thanks to "Angry Dad". Still I find most social situations stressful and confusing. I am definitely not socially successful, the skills I do have just keep me out of trouble.


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12 Sep 2011, 5:26 pm

I'm hypersensitive to negative body language and facial expressions. It's how to react to them that I'm clueless about.



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12 Sep 2011, 6:07 pm

DGuru wrote:

From how he describes it and how he acts sounds like he has Asperger's except for the essential symptom of social difficulty. He actually has no idea what his condition is called. This got me thinking. Maybe physically it works the same, but his "special interest" is reading social cues, causing him not to fit the label "Asperger's" or to fall under any "Autistic Spectrum Disorder" simply because his hyperfocus causes him to be very good at social cues.


Attending that, apperently, your friend does not seem to have any problem, he has not any condition needed to be named; probably he has only an ESxJ personality (in MBTI terms).