Can you be Autistic and Bi-Polar at the same time?

Post Reply New Topic

I know Autism is a 'spectrum disorder'. So you might be a 'little' or a 'lot'.

But can you have Bi-Polar disorder as well at the same time?

Do any of you with a diagnosis have both?

I wouldn't imagine Bi-Polar is a spectrum disorder, but I might be wrong.

I could research it, but what the hell, I just thought I would ask here.


Reason being, I have been diagnosed with having 'Hypomania' by a past doctor and
prescribed Olanzipine - quickly binned thankyou....

But never diagnosed with Bi-Polar. I seem to have the 'Up' phase of it, but never the 'Down'. Though I do get very depressed sometimes.

Anyway.

What about you?
Anyone with a dual-diagnosis?

Is it possible? Rare? Common?

I have a triple diagnosis - Asperger's, Avoidance Personality Disorder, Bipolar Disorder. With my BPD I'm usually more in the down phase than up.

Interesting. Thanks.

I would probably be more down than up too.
But I have not been 'diagnosed'.

All of these diagnoses are so subjective that, sure, you can have anything you want, or at least whatever the mental health types want you to have. Autism with bi-polar, or ADD, NVLD,PDD, Tourette's, schizophrenia. - you name it, and it can easily be arranged.
There are no blood tests, brain scans, or other medical style real physical markers for these conditions anyway, so it seems that it's just up to the whim of the diagnostician to do whatever he (or she) needs to be happy, increase their power and influence, and of course, pad their bank account at the same time.
I Googled autism yesterday, and learned that 40% of serious, (legitimate?) cases with autism can't even speak. That is my image of folks with autism. I can sympathize with them, and not the people who can speak, read and write. The criteria for all sorts of psychological conditions have become much more flexible in recent years. Less than two months ago, I read an article in the media, which said that one in eighty eight children has some type of autism. Do you believe that? How did they ever come up with such nonsense? Isn't it just to artificially inflate the numbers for their own purposes?
They even wanted to branch out beyond the coastlines of America and expand their market to include the more rural and interior parts of America. So now some young kid, who may just be a little nerdy, geeky, or plain weird, will now be tagged with the autism label, and subjected to whatever "help" is deemed necessary by the elite coastal types. Do people here really believe that over 1% of children are truly autistic? Or is it just another power grab by the psychological profession?

The psychiatrist who diagnosed me with autism listed four things on his diagnostic report for me:

Bipolar (I)
Asperger's (severe and could possibly be HFA)
Eating Disorder (in 2007 it was diagnosed as anorexia, in 2008 it was diagnosed as bulimia, but now falls under ED-NOS)
Transgender (female to male)

I do not doubt that I am both bipolar and autistic. The specialist who diagnosed me said that he saw quite a few autistic people who had a mental health diagnosis as well.

Part of my bipolar disorder includes psychotic features (mostly delusions) in acute manic or depressive episodes, so I was really worried going to see the specialist would land me with a schizophrenia diagnosis (not because schizophrenia is bad, but because I felt it would be an inaccurate diagnosis).

I'm not sure which issue is more disabling. If I had to pick one, I would say bipolar. Stress can send me tumbling in either direction, and I've wound up hospitalized several times. Together though, they suck. My bipolar gets triggered when I'm lonely, and as an autistic person, I'm lonely by definition.

Any specific questions? I'm not sure what sort of information you want.

No, that was good. Threw up a few I didn't even think about.

Don't worry about being lonely. I mean, I know it is not easy, but you are not alone.

Interesting question.

Can people with bipolar have moods that are flat and slightly depressed at times and at other times be severely depressed but still have a few times of good mood?

Just as an added comment, antidepressants make me much more depressed.

Bipolar mood episodes can be mild, moderate, severe, and everything in between. And in between the episodes there is usually periods of normal mood.

I'm tempted to be Jack at this point, Hi-Jacking the boat and to hell with nurse Ratchett.


I don't think there is anything wrong with us that a good boat trip wouldn't cure.

I've previously made this post:
schizophrenia or bipolar? (Melvin Konner, 1987)
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt177714.html

It includes excerpts from a book by a medical student (and from the 1980s). He states that American psychiatrists tend to diagnose schizophrenia whereas British psychiatrists tend to diagnosis bipolar. He also cites an experienced psychiatrist to the effect, let's try lithium first, since it has fewer side effects which can be more easily monitored. For a patient in crisis, the usual method was to start off on an anti-schizophrenic medication and phase that down as the therapeutic blood level of lithium was built up. Too little lithium didn't work and too much was toxic. The patient had to be hospitalized to establish the correct therapeutic range. And my guess would be that this necessity was a big institutional reason why American psychiatrists often jumped straight to anti-schizophrenic medications and stayed there (and this second part may be the real mistake). Again, all this is 20+ years ago, which of course is an eternity for the practice of medicine. And Konner does argue, and draws upon this experienced guy, that bipolar by itself can lead to delusions.

I myself have struggled with depression. I have not yet tried antidepressants but they are my ace in the hole. As I have read, it very much is trial and error, typically takes a month to tell, and no doctor in the world can tell in advance. My personal plan is five month, five antidepressants. And if that doesn't work, another five in five. So, if not one SSRI, maybe another, or maybe a SNRI, or maybe Wellbutrin, etc, etc, there are a bunch! (And sometimes it's also important to step down from an antidepressant in stages even if the damn thing doesn't seem to be working.)

Congrats on coming to the realization that you are Transgender. And I wish you all the best in living authentically as the human being you are. In fact, I think the struggle for Transgender rights and equality may actually be a pretty good model for Asperger's-Autism Spectrum rights and equality.

Last edited by AardvarkGoodSwimmer on 20 May 2012, 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Not only is it very possible to have both bipolar disorder and Asperger's, bipolar disorder is also considered a spectrum nowadays. You can have bipolar I with psychotic features, which is the most severe type, all the way down to cyclothymia (dysthymia and hypomania only). Bipolar disorder comes in many, many different forms. The "classic" textbook case of euphoric manic episodes and major depressive episodes is only one of many ways in which bipolar disorder manifests itself.

From the Asperger Fact Sheet -
What causes AS? Is it genetic?

Current research points to brain abnormalities as the cause of AS. Using advanced brain imaging techniques, scientists have revealed structural and functional differences in specific regions of the brains of normal versus AS children. These defects are most likely caused by the abnormal migration of embryonic cells during fetal development that affects brain structure and “wiring” and then goes on to affect the neural circuits that control thought and behavior.

For example, one study found a reduction of brain activity in the frontal lobe of AS children when they were asked to respond to tasks that required them to use their judgment. Another study found differences in activity when children were asked to respond to facial expressions. A different study investigating brain function in adults with AS revealed abnormal levels of specific proteins that correlate with obsessive and repetitive behaviors.

Scientists have always known that there had to be a genetic component to AS and the other ASDs because of their tendency to run in families. Additional evidence for the link between inherited genetic mutations and AS was observed in the higher incidence of family members who have behavioral symptoms similar to AS but in a more limited form. For example, they had slight difficulties with social interaction, language, or reading.

A specific gene for AS, however, has never been identified. Instead, the most recent research indicates that there are most likely a common group of genes whose variations or deletions make an individual vulnerable to developing AS. This combination of genetic variations or deletions will determine the severity and symptoms for each individual with AS.


But specifically...

The moment any diverts a topic towards political or ideological beliefs, they lose every bit of their legitimacy with me. I'm sure there are others here who would rather not delve into such beliefs as doing so is certainly bound not to just step on toes, but occasionally stomp on them. I do not believe that there is a place in this forum for such.

We in the research field are getting closer and closer every day to find true genetic and structural markers for a true diagnosis of neuropsychiatric disorders. Just because we don't have a way to make a medical diagnosis right now doesn't mean that the biochemical entities that signal a diagnosis don't exist. We just haven't found them yet. The fact that neuropsychiatric medications work at all is proof in and of itself that there is a neurochemical abnormality present.

As someone who is 49 years old and was in public school mainly in the 1970s (with speech therapy which didn't really help me), this was exactly my mental map! 'An autistic kid is a kid who can't talk.' Not the case. In fact, one of the most remarkable surprises of my life is that I have come to consider myself as being on the autism spectrum. This explains me more than anything else I've come across.

I think there are four main characteristics of being autistic:
1)intense interests,
2)wanting social interaction (sometimes so much it hurts), but awkwardness or patchy skills in pursuing it.
3) stimming,
4) sensory issues.

Obviously, not all persons on the spectrum share all four of these to the same extent. So, the spectrum is multi-dimensional hyperspace? Yeah, in a good way, to a fun extent, I think so.

I am glad that neuroscience is working to find the answers. My concern is that the diagnostic criteria is now too broad, and thus many will be diagnosed who really don't need to be. Who benefits? The pharmaceutical industry for one, since inevitably the children will be pumped up with drugs, such as is the case with Ritalin and ADD. Same with diabetes, where they have broadened the definition of that disease as well, with the result - more business for the doctors and the big drug companies! I am sure that any neuropsychiatric medication will work at least some people, so that doesn't convince me that a patient necessarily has anything seriously wrong with them.

Cavendish needs a hug. C'mon, everybody! Group hug!

Seriously, though, Cavendish's assertion that diagnosticians diagnose to fatten their bank accounts and gain power & influence is misguided and insulting. I didn't go to school for years to get a Master's or PhD, but I'm quite certain I wouldn't have done it just so I can fatten my bank account with misdiagnoses and power-grabbing plays. I'm on the spectrum and I can talk but I also happen to fit all four of the criteria Aardvark Good Swimmer mentioned.

I therefore maintain my call for a group hug for Cavendish!