Is Loyalty an Aspie trait?

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The science fiction author Robert A. Heinlein wrote in The Notebooks of Lazarus Long that The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty." Whenever these twin concepts fall into disrepute -- get out of there fast! You may possibly save yourself, but it is too late to save that society. It is doomed.

I wonder if being loyal is an aspie trait, because I know I am. The longest relationship I was in ended badly because I tried so hard for so long to make it work because I thought it was the right thing to do. If I had let it go a year or two sooner my ex- might not have had as much bad feelings towards me. Of course another reason it lasted longer than it should is because I cannot read social cues. I had a similar experience last Fall when I finally realized that the bass player I had been jamming with didn't really like me at all. With hindsight, I can clearly see that I should have stopped trying to jam with him several months before, but again, my sense of loyalty to "the band" blinded me.

I also wonder if I recognized and identified with the concepts of loyalty and duty even as a five year old boy when I read of the character and career of the World War One flying ace Manfred von Richthofen, better known as the Red Baron. He was a great hunter, had keen eyesight, and what could be called situational awareness. While most men in aerial combat were lucky if they could even just look out for themselves, he was able to keep track of what all the men in his squadron were doing at all times. After they landed, the others were amazed that von Richthofen could tell them in detail what they had done right and what they had done wrong in the previous combat. What's more, they knew they could count on him to save their butts if they were in danger. I don't think he was an Aspie, but he was shy socially.

I always wanted to be like von Richthofen, somebody respected for outstanding abilities at what they do but even more, somebody that others could count on. I have always tried to be that type of friend. As for duty, von Richthofen was seriously hurt in aerial combat on July 6, 1917 but survived to fight again. He never should have seen combat after that serious head wound, and he was urged to take a job as an instructor behind the lines. He didn't want any special treatment just because he was famous. He said that if any ordinary soldier had suffered the same wound, that soldier would have been sent back to the front to fight as soon as possible. Also, he didn't want to abandon his comrades at the front. He had a sense of obligation to his comrades and to his country. For some reason that really struck a chord with me, and he has always been one of my role models.

Yes I know there were bad things about him. He enjoyed hunting, even if the prey was other people. But he was loyal and courageous, and he exemplified, almost as much as it is possible for any human to do, the twin concepts of loyalty and duty so highly praised by that popular science fiction author Robert A. Heinlein.

I wrote an informative speech about the Fokker Triplane that is one of the better concise sources of information about this aircraft on the internet. I even wrote a song about the character and career of the Red Baron and posted a music video on YouTube. The lyrics are historically accurate, focusing mainly on the day he was wounded July 6, 1917. The images used in the video are also historically accurate. Several noted aviation artists gave me permission to use images of some of their artwork in this video. Today is the 93rd anniversary of his death on April 21, 1918.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysUQuMarsV4[/youtube]

I'm going to say yes, even though by doing so I might start a flame war. Unless something happens where loyalty would go against my ethics, I think it is somewhat of a trait.

I'm not sure if loyalty and a sense of duty are aspie traits.

I have Aspergers (aspie = having Aspergers?)

Other people say that they know that I can be counted on.
I chose to leave out examples, as that could be considered bragging. I don't like to brag.

I have known many people with some form of autism (not sure about their exact diagnosis) who were pretty disloyal and had little or no sense of duty.

So I suppose it's like the old "no two people with autism are exactly alike".
Or perhaps it is "if an individual has a certain trait it is possible or likely that said trait has a stronger presence". Like with autistic people having fewer hobbies while pursuing them more intensely.

My husband is loyal to a fault. He is extremely loyal.

Not so much the sense of duty, as the loyalty is what I was asking about. They sometimes go together but not necessarily. I don't feel much of any sense of duty, but I am loyal. For example, when a friend of mine was working for Longs Drugs, I would tend to buy more from that store even if it cost more than someplace else. I figured supporting the company he worked for was supporting my friend in a way. That friend was a bass player for a band I founded in the early 1990s. When I moved a hundred miles away to be with my first real girlfriend (who became the mother of my daughter and then my ex-), I didn't think it should be a barrier to our friendship.

I drove two hundred miles round trip every week for scheduled band practice, and frequently one or the other members would have cancelled or made other plans without bothering to tell me. Still I persisted, because to me the band was a holy thing, sort of like that Blues Brothers movie ("We're on a mission from God") but not in any religious sense, more like to the spirit of music or creativity. I was probably the last one to realize that R Band had broken up, just as I was the last one to realize the relationship with my ex- had broken up, or that my most recent band last year had broken up. I have a sense of loyalty to the relationship, to the band, to the idea, long after most people have seen the signs clearly that it is over.

I don't think it is a trait of Asperger's. Maybe people with AS are more likely to be loyal on average, but I don't think it's a trait. My ex has AS and he cheated on me...so I am inclined to say that loyalty is an individual kind of thing. Not inherent to the group (AS).

It ties in to honesty. I gave my word that I am in a relationship or a band, and once I do that I feel committed to do my utmost even if the other partner (or partners) don't. Maybe it also has something to do with literal thinking, I am in a band therefore I am in a band. Supposedly autistic people are resistant to change or uncomfortable with it. However, in this universe it seems the only constant is change.

It seems to be a general trait yes, caused by autism or by social conditions resulting from autism i dont know.
Traits like rigid routines are related to autism but not everyone has them, So loyalty is also a trait in my opinion.

Like it could be that having a harder time making friends leads to more loyalty.

I could see this as a result of black and white thinking but not a particular trait. If somewhere in the development of a personal ethos loyalty is given high priority, then the tendency to think in absolutes would necessitate strong adherence to the concept of loyalty. On the other hand, a more self centered ethos might rank personal need over loyalty to others and that would express itself as consistent disloyalty.

That makes sense. +1

I think it is, as I don't like changes (a fundamental Aspie trait), and loyalty to friends, significant-other, or business associate, represents the reduced likelihood of change. I will tolerate much more crap from people in general, than others might, as I don't want the upheaval of dismissing anyone from my life.

Charles

I've never understood what the word 'loyalty' means. (This doesn't mean I have or don't have it -- I literally don't know what it means, so I have no idea if I have it or not.)

I only know one sense of the word loyalty, which always struck me as disturbing -- when someone would stick up for a friend even if it meant hiding something the friend had done very wrong. But I get the sense that whatever the word is being used as here, it doesn't mean that.

i agree, I don't think loyality is one of the best traits someone can have, in some cases it can mean the opposite of honesty, and being very loyal doesn't make you a good person, people can be very loyal to someone who is horrible.

I disagree. I would not be loyal to anyone who was horrible, at least not knowingly. And if I were and I found out they were horrible, my loyalty would cease. To me, loyalty is one of the better human traits. It's right up there with honesty, integrity, and being someone others can count on when the chips are down. I see loyalty as being true to one's word. I have no respect for people who cheat on their partners. If they want to do that, they should be open and honest about it instead of sneakily doing it behind their back.

On the other hand, yes people can be loyal to someone who is very horrible. Hitler comes to mind as a very popular charismatic leader who ordered terrible crimes committed against humanity. The loyalty of those who practically worshiped him is one thing. If they still did so after knowing about the Holocaust, even thinking that what he did was right, that's another thing. So in a sense I can see your point about people sometimes being loyal to terrible people.

yes you might only be loyal to moral good people but that isn't true of everyone, you can be loyal for horrible reasons to bad people and loyal to friends and family for good reasons, loyality is neutral

I don't think it is because anyone can be. My husband is too and I have been labeled it also.