Life

Post Reply New Topic

me and my girl in a way agues much about this topic, I just don't seem to be able to relate to her the depth of what I feel.

Life, to look something in the eye and kill it because it don't meet our expectations or because it harms what we desire when its only doing whats in its own nature or because of its sex.

My girl raises cute dairy goats as a hobby, I understand farming and raising live stalk, I grew up on a farm, but to me its all a matter of choice.

someday we will reach the stars as a race, what if our race is starving, and the first race we find is liken our great apes or goats or our ape ancestors, yet look like insects to us, and are a good food source, are we to farm them? do we have the right?

she is right in how she feels about her animals and how she farms them, even i eat meat, but I can not in right mind farm the meat for I in heart do not have the heart to kill something for being as it must in nature, if i was starving or my family, then YES, i shall do as i must!, but when does it stop?, what are the limitations in choices? to save money when its not really needed? to kill off a species because it benefits our pocket book or hobbies? yes dairy goats are not a dieing breed, but,,, whats the difference? esp to the animal its self? its its life!, it has done nothing wrong! and if it has, then by who's standards? are we gods? what gives us the right? do we have the right to wipe out and snuff their lives out just like many would say god has if he does not like what we are or have become? tell that too the stars! and screw god! I am not gods pet to decide if I am to die or not just because i breath wrong or feel and think different then he does!

yes, she can do with her goats as she chooses and wills to do so, I do not tell her what to do, but my heart will never be into it, it does not mean I am right, just that my heart cant do so,. she says if she wants them to be a healthy stalk and such some things has to be done, but to me, its still a choice in having the hobby in the first place.

I cant look an innocent in the eye that would not harm others past its own nature and kill it. nor do so even if i don't look it in the eye, just knowing, and wondering, if it was me, if i was in its place. many people do not care what happens to another person because its not them, in reflection, to me, its the same with animals. I hate killing anything short of an insect, and even then i tend to put them out or out of harms way instead of killing it most of the time. but i hate misquotes and flys, they annoy me, but then again, they interfere in my space, not i theirs.
and yes i do believe in being humane, if an animal was suffering sometimes its best to put it to sleep, and i have done so before, but i do have my limitations.
.
Am I wrong?

Life is precious, but it's a cycle. Think for a minute about not only all the animals that die for our sake (and this is true even if you don't eat meat) but also the trees, big beautiful trees, the plants, ALL the lifeforms. This is one of the tradeoffs that comes from being at the top of the food chain. We can't help it, predation is a way of life, even for plants, insects, bacteria, and vurses.

It isn't always pleasant to think about all the sacrifices that get made for our existence, bu tthey occur nonetheless. I think that the best we can do is to:
*not be any more wasteful or voracious in our living habits than necessary
*to make the cost of our lives worthwhile rather than living as parasites on the earth
* and to be conscientious in our feeding and killing habits.

Most animals don't have a clear concept of time or the future. They don't make provisions for the future, other than to eat as much as they can when food is available, in order to have food reserves on their bodies. All they know is the present. Raising livestock carries with it the responsibility of making their present as comfortable and happy as it can be. When they are killed, it should be done humanely and very fast, so fast that they don't feel it.

If you were an animal, would you want to be given away to a pet home and end up neglected, living on a rope in the middle of a chewed down lawn, not having enough water, no attention, no companions, hooves overgrown and not trimmed for years until you have to walk on your knees,(yes, I have seen this, it's common), eventually to die of neglect or a dog attack or some other misery, or to be sold from place to place until soemone finally eats you? Or, would you want to live with your family and friends, happily going out to graze, coming in at night to plenty of water and hay and grain, and one day to walk out to a bowl of grain and be shot so quickly that any suffering was minimal?

At least when I butcher them myself, I know how they died, that it was merciful, that they aren't in some feedlot somewhere or being taunted by mean children. I once sold two beautiful doelings at an auction...turned out they were being bought for goat roping!! To get chased around by a whooping person on a horse, get roped, thrown to the ground and sat on while your legs are tied up, over and over and over again, every day...that was their fate, and I couldn't save them from it, I had already signed the papers. A lot of goats get bought for goat roping. Goats are like aspies, they don't like loud noises or sudden movements or being chased or handled (unless they feel safe with the person). Those poor goats are in a state of panic for hours at a time!

There are a lot of very good reasons why I simply cannot keep them all...and if I'm going to eat meat or dairy products or eggs, it's hypocritical to oppose the butchering.

OK, OK, I know I was being hypocritical eating meat yet don't like the killing, I am sorry, I guess what mostly gets to me is when its done at home, I tend to make pets out of EVERYTHING. I cant help it, I love animals , esp the baby's, and I have never ate a pet yet, even when I grew up on a farm, my folks would kill the cow or chickens or pigs and I would NEVER eat the meat, it was like eating my friends. I couldn't do it.
and I been starting to like those little goaties. esp the baby's.

Well, dear, I don't like to eat meat that I killed, anyway. If I kill it, I can't eat it. But if my children are hungry, I will kill it and cook it for them. You don't want to eat it, I don't, and the boys probably won't either. We'll end up selling them to someone that we know will do a clean job of it. The income from the sales will help to feed the other goats. It's a circle.

Deleted

Do you folks eat meat? What about eggs or dairy products?

It is nigh impossible for a pregnant or lactating woman or a growing child to grow a healthy young brain without adequate protein and B vitamins. A woman who does not get enough calcium and iron will be a lot more likely to suffer osteoporosis, anemia, general weakness, and to take a long time recovering. Her children are less likely to grow well. I'm not saying it's absolutely impossible, just very, VERY difficult.

Usually people who object to killingh animals for meat have grown up in the city and buy it in tidy little packages from the store.

i'm a vegetarian, and have been for 25 years. no malnutrition here. it is more difficult to ensure correct nutrition if you're a veggie, but not THAT difficult - i know many veggies, including veggie kids and babies, who are all healthy. people in general don't consider what they eat, very much. i am always aware of what i'm eating. yes, there are some veggies and vegans whose health suffers because of their diet, but then there are an awful lot of omnivores the same - burgers and chips and fizzy pop (cola) don't constitute a healthy diet either. and i take supplements, just to be on the safe side.

i won't eat animals who have been abused. if there had been organic, free-range meat, humanely killed, available in 1980, maybe i would have had a different choice to make. or, if i'd had the opportunity to catch and kill my own food - as chamoisee says, at least then one is aware of the whole process, and can show some respect, rather than imagining meat comes in plastic wrappers, nicely sawn up.

Bump