Avoid this depression trap

Post Reply New Topic

If you have Aspergers, your social nature is different from that of neurotypicals.

Neurotypicals have social needs similar to that of dogs, whereas people with Aspergers Syndrome (AS) have social needs similar to that of cats.

What matters socially to neurotypicals is the pack.

What matters socially to people with AS is maintaining "pride".


I've tried to act socially like a neurotypical (because the majority of people you meet are neurotypic, so it's natural to try to adapt to fit in and have company), with the result of getting depressed and not finding a point to life.

The ongoing dilemma is, you cannot simultaneously be a true member of the pack and maintain your "pride". Because if you're a member of the pack you'll have to put up with the social hierarchy - you'll have to accept that people ranked higher socially bully you into obedience, thereby losing your "pride". On the other hand, if you insist on maintaining your pride, you're not going to be a member of the pack, with the possible result of becoming isolated.

But if you have AS it's very likely that you value your "pride" higher than being a member of the pack. Let me warn you, depression is a likely result of letting too much go of your "pride".

Just as it is with cats. You have to earn a cat's respect - you can bully a dog into obedience, not a cat. You're likely going to become depressed if you put up with too much bullying.

More than anything, I like the "NT=Dog" and "AS=Cat" metaphor.

I think that is a very good metaphor!

That makes a lot of sense. I have too much pride, I guess. I'd rather tell someone to f*** off than put up with being put down.

Does it really make you happier? I guess it has done so with me. I've had lots of periods during my life where I've been alone and happy. Maybe I just find the wrong social groups though. Do they all pick on you like that?

Yeah, I've pontificated before on this forum on how I feel I have many traits in common with cats. I'm pretty serious about maintaining my independence and have gone to some length towards engineering my life around that purpose; I don't go out of my way to defy authority just for the hell of it, but I'll feel very resentful if I feel it's being exercised unjustly. I quite like this metaphor also.

I can be affectionate with those I bond with, but I don't care to associate with a pack as an end of its own. Which makes me quite an oddity in a fundamentally pack-oriented species.

All this said, pet preferences seem to be distributed pretty similarly on the spectrum to off it. I'm a raging cat person, but there are dogs I like, too.

Picking on each other is a natural part of the neurotypical social culture - it's their social survival strategy. Neurotypicals need to know their social position so the pack cooperates most optimally - everyone knows their position and then they command around with others or are submissive according to their position.

But if you have Aspergers, this social survival strategy is going to conflict with something fundamental inside yourself - your pride. If you lose your pride through bullying, you're going to be depressed.

Just as the pack is the social fuel for neurotypicals that keeps them going, the social fuel for AS people is their pride.

A neurotypical just perceives bullying as a challenge about social position - could be a bit serious, but nothing out of the unusual.

A person with AS perceives bullying as a mortal threat - because it's a threat to that person's pride.

On the other hand, Neurotypicals perceive not being accepted by the pack as a mortal threat - because it's a serious threat to their membership of the pack.

So what's the biggest threat you can put up for a neurotypical against bullying? Not accepting their presence by avoidance! I've done this to bullies, and it really gets to them!

I always say that too, I just don't call it pride but integrity. Integrity is the act of behaving in accordance to your own values (as distinct from acting according to social pressure, for example). Some authors, yet, call it "magnet" or "gravity center". We're more drawn to our inner reality/world, so we act more according to our own individuality, while NTs are more drawn to act according to external, social influences. All this results in NTs being similar to each other and rejecting the different, whereas Aspies are dissimilar both from NTs and from each other. Which accounts for the loneliness.

Gawer, excellent post. In my personal experience, we are going to be happiest when we live life on life's terms. When I was younger, before I had ever heard of AS, I spent most of my time feeling depressed and inadequate for not being able to deal with life that way NT's do--socializing, playing sports, etc. For me, I had to learn that I was different, and would have to deal with life differently. Now my life is very good.

Good post qawer

I find the whole thing fascinating, up unto the point of being in the situation of being backed into a corner by a 'pack', that is. Even then the retrospect is quiet interesting to look at. I notice with people I can talk one on one ok. Then to see how that person changes when another person arrives. I notice they are not fully comfortable in a 3 person situation either. I think because there is a 50/50 chance of them ending up on 'the wrong end', they keep their options open. Making it easier to relate to them. Then if another person arrives, making 4 people, it is easy for 'packs' to form.

It's a life of war to hang out with people and maintain your pride as the OP outlined. For some people rolling with the punches and salvaging what they can is a brighter option than an alternative of a solitude live. It is also dependant on the people you are surrounding yourself with too. I have somewhat of a happy medium at this stage, where I meet 1 or 2 friends I've known since I was a teenager from time to time for a few cans. If I have to go to a large gathering sadly I feel the need to take a vallium or over drink. That's why I avoid them

I have nothing in common with cats. Useless, detestable parasitic creatures. Stupid as bricks.

Cats stupid?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrlTijuhVOA[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhHtgufKbYY[/youtube]

Cats are not as smart as dogs. Here is an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6479QAJuz8

For what it's worth, this video makes your point that cats are more independent. Hats off to border collies.

Dogs are very social and seem to need it so I like your cat and dog comparisons. I can see myself as a bit of a cat when it comes to how I go about the world.

And yes, I believe anyone with AS should just be themselves and not try too hard to fit in with what others want or expect of you. It is a lousy existence.

Keep working on making your own life and you may change your mind on things being so lousy. Good luck.

I agree.

The hard part about being oneself is that the majority of people are neurotypic, so in the job market you often have to accept the bullying attached to the pack mentality to some degree. We often face the choice of getting bullied thereby losing integrity/pride vs. not having company.

Dogs and Aspies are very similar. We both think in pictures. We get very excited over our special interests (e.g. playing ball, chew toy). We can be overwhelmed by our feelings yet have difficulty expressing them properly (jumping up, running around the house). We both stim (incessant tail wagging). We can be picky eaters. We like routine.

I've always felt a tremendous bond with dogs.

You have hair.