Broader Autism Phenotype - Thoughts?

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So, stereotypically when AS people and NT people interact, it's the AS person that gets confused. The tables have turned, though, and now it's the (mostly) NT person who is confused and coming to you guys for help. My sister (who's an Aspie) and I were talking about the Broader Autism Phenotype which sparked an interesting conversation I'd like some thoughts from you all on.

After years of other people suggesting I'm on the spectrum, telling me I act a lot like my sister (followed by meaningful looks), and eventually someone saying that I was probably BAP (on this very website), I took a quiz and a questionnaire (the latter of which I took directly from a study) and both came back VERY positive. Sister disagrees with this very much. I'm still not sure if she doesn't think I am, doesn't think BAP exists, or some third option that she's holding back on revealing because she thinks it'd bother me too much (which is what I'm leaning towards).

Anyways, so separately but related to this whole thing, I run a website explaining autism and spreading understanding, and I asked her to check out the new diagram I put up to explain broader autism phenotype in the context of the autism spectrum and see if it was helpful (I run everything for this website through her first and thought understanding BAP could particularly help parents of children on the spectrum/help people understand the idea of a spectrum as a whole). Well, that was interpreted as asking for feedback on BAP as a whole (I probably wasn't as clear as I'd thought), which she gave. She said some things about diluting the autism cause, drew some parallels of a debate within the LGBT movement as to whether or not to accept certain groups within their ranks for fear of damaging their own cause, and more that I unfortunately don't remember. She was quite passionate about all this. Given that what I wrote in the website is probably three paragraphs out of 15+ articles all about the actual autism spectrum, I can't help but feel there's probably even more than that behind her passion, especially since she got really emotional and left the room/tried to shut down the conversation a bunch (we get along great, so this was way out of the norm for us).

Anyways, so I'm looking for thoughts. Whether they're thoughts on the reason she may have reacted like that, or thoughts on BAP as a whole (which can include that it doesn't exist or something else unflattering - as long as ideas are considered before they're discarded, I don't have a problem with that), all thoughts are welcome. We're not mad at each other, in case you were concerned - we were back to normal within about five minutes - but this is weird for us to have happen, so I'm thinking I didn't pick up on something or understand something and just need some help learning from this/figuring it out. Thanks!

I'm inclined to think that the BAP exists, because I think I'm on it. I have no known autistic relatives, but I had social challenges very similar to Asperger's growing up, like taking things literally or to an extreme, not understanding what was expected of me socially, bluntness, monologuing, and not making the correct or appropriate calculations of how other people would react to my behavior. I also had a naturally aloof temperament, not pursuing (and often not accepting) affectionate gestures, not missing people, and being quite content on my own. My sisters say that I was weirder than my ex-stepsister's autistic (likely PDD-NOS though I don't know his exact diagnosis) child. However, I don't think that even as a child I would have met the full diagnostic criteria for an autism spectrum disorder. I didn't have the forms of repetitive play and unusual fidgeting (stims) typical of the autistic spectrum; four-leaf-clover hunting, which I could do for hours, was probably my most "autistic" form of play in terms of being quirky, solitary, repetitive, and sensory, and I didn't start doing it until I was about 10 and wasn't successful at it until I was almost 11. And my sensory processing has been mostly normal most of my life apart from a slight hypersensitivity to loud or chaotic noises and a slight or occasional hyposensitivity to pain, which I grew out of by age 8 or so. If I were a child today, I might be diagnosed with DSM-5 Social (Pragmatic) Communication Disorder, the controversial thing that some say means that the highest-functioning Aspies will be under-recognized and under-supported.

I think the most controversial thing about this "in-between" neurology is whether it should be considered more autistic or more NT. Perhaps your sister feels that BAP folks are just quirky NTs and their recognition as a "thing" related to autism will result in people not understanding what truly autistic people go through. And I think that's a fair point. Several people have pointed out my "traits," but I could never relate to the intense and vivid sensory processing issues of most of the Aspies and Auties who write books and websites, and I've become probably more well-adjusted than I ever expected to be. I feel that for practical purposes, I am NT. (Or at least, non-autistic. Some bloggers these days use the term "allistic" - other-oriented. I like its symmetry with "autistic.") However, I've been reading some of the recent writings of Temple Grandin online, and it sounds like she's of the opinion that there's no qualitative difference between Asperger's, social (pragmatic) communication disorder, and the archetypes of the broader autism phenotype such as geeks and nerds. She believes they're all different degrees of the same thing, which is basically the milder end of the autistic continuum that goes all the way down to Kanner syndrome aka classic autism. So, people have a wide variety of opinions on the subject. In the end, I think BAP is a thing, but for practical purposes should probably not be called autism.

My own summary of this controversy is simply that brains are on an XY-axis continuum -- in other words, the physical layout of each brain shows both vertical & horizontal activity, due to the interaction of what I call "Narture."

Because both ASD & NT people-types vary greatly and overlap in their traits the BAP is definitely a stronger theory than "either-or", as if there are opposing camps at war!

I believe we're going to see what we now label as "neuro-typical" phase out as positive "autistic" traits are retained by natural selection.

Don't stick to only forums & quizzes, but also read books like Dr. Tony Attwood's "Asperger's and Girl's", and current scientific journal studies, slip-shod as they are!

The only one who really, truly knows you is YOU!

Good luck!

~V

own personal view on BAP is,it does exist; most families with diagnosed or diagnoseable autists have family members with sub clinical autistic behavior, temple grandin had interviewed einsteins family once and found it to be full of diagnoseable and BAP folks;except this was before BAP became part of the autists lingo.

BAP is just a label; the traits are there whether theres a name on it or not,its no less a neurotype divergence by not being diagnoseable.
the pysch world is intent on labeling everything,they say we are obsessed with having order but we arent the ones insisting on medicalising every damn sub clinical difficulty and trait.
it shoud be left as a unofficial label,in the same way they have done with synethesia,they have nothing to gain by giving a clinical label to people who woud be significantly harmed by it,even most who meet the borderline of high functioning autism are harmed by it in different ways so to imagine the effects on people who are sub clinicaly autistic.
itd have a knock on effect on autists who are reliant on their label,as without it they woud not get the support and understanding they need [not that everyone who needs it gets it]-by including BAP the spectrum woud be stretching services to far,and giving accomodations and free stuff [such as travel passes in the UK] to people who are on an equal footing with NTs and dont need that leg up.

If we take into consideration with autism as a gradient or spectrum then yes BAP does exist. There isn't really a drastic autistic or not thing although the general population would like to think there is. From an autistic perspective, I can imagine someone autistic might look at you and say that your not because in there eyes, you don't struggle as much as they do. Many of traits of autism can be "personality" traits or preferences on a very mild end and thats probably what BAP is. The traits aren't severe enough to warrent a diagnosis or to need excess assistance with. If the traits don't "impair" your day to day functioning then your not technically on the spectrum.

For aspies like me, our "traits" are often mistaken for bad personality issues. The gradient between impairment and personality disfunction is very fuzzy. Thats why aspergers can be so hard to understand. A socially awkward NT can likely progress to becoming a socially competant NT with the span of a yr if they put lots of effort whereas an aspie really cant.

Wow! I appreciate the outpouring of well-thought out, considerate posts. I agree with basically everything you all have said, and mostly thought these things before myself, so I'm guessing it's at least mostly not an understanding issue. My guess is it was either a communication issue, or something related to the relationship between my sister and I. When I first mentioned it to her, she told me she was skeptical because of the way I'm always a "guide-dog" for her in social interaction. I told her being a guide doesn't rule out having trouble with the terrain yourself, albeit at a much shallower level, and that BAP is definitely not the same thing as Asperger's, but she was all around skeptical/disbelieving. I think she believes I'm just doing this because I'm seeking a label (to fit in? to stand out? really not sure of the logic here...), and since she thinks I don't actually belong to that label, that probably comes across as a jerk move. After talking to you all, I understand where she's coming from better now - it seems like concerns about the slippery slope are a very real thing with this issue, and that seems to line up well with her concerns.

BAP isn't official autism spectrum, but I do think that it makes sense as part of an unofficial spectrum of traits and emphasizes the whole continuum thing. That said, talking to a family with a newly diagnosed son, I've definitely seen the stigma side - I mentioned BAP briefly and the wife just grabbed onto it with regards to her husband. It turns out that they'd be fighting over it. Wife's family says "there's something wrong with this child!", husband's family says "no, he's just like his dad!" ...cue fighting and, now I fear, finger pointing as to blame (genetically, I think it's pretty clear whose side of the family this comes from). So stigma was a consideration when I popped this on the website, but I've also read a bunch of blogs where parents figuring out they're BAP have found it very insightful/helpful. I've certainly found it helpful because I've felt like I was in this weird Aspie/NT middle ground for years, though not quite a full member of either group, and it's nice to know it's not all in my head and this actually does exist. If in the future, though, the stigma seems to outweigh the benefits, I may remove it.

While labels can be stigmatizing when known by others, or can harm the person with them if they feel the label defines them, they can also be incredibly comforting. In my case, it's comforting to know that it's not all my fault that the first adjective people think of to describe me is "weird" (followed closely by "nerd", although I choose to take that one as a compliment) or that I'm a misfit. Does that make sense?

I feel I should add, I don't feel I'm impaired or anything. I mean, I do feel like social things come a whole lot harder than for other people, but I don't think it significantly impairs my life anymore (high school, though, was a different story). I'm not sure if a year of intense work would make that change; I could probably become a decent actress if I tried really hard, but I'd still be struggling to figure out what to do in a situation. I think of social situations, particularly with strangers - but basically anything that involves small talk (and where I can't quickly change the topic to something interesting like China, economics, or even autism) - as though I'm following a step by step manual. Like I'll be conversing and I'll try to figure out what step comes next in the manual - do I talk about something else, what's acceptable to talk about, what would the other person like to talk about, and at what point is it socially acceptable to make a quick getaway. The last one, of course, being most important. I think intense work on social skills would give me access to more manuals and let me figure out better which step comes next, but I don't think it'd get it to flow naturally. I do feel different from most NTs, but I don't feel like this is something that should be in the DSM or anything like that.

I'm pretty sure my brother is BAP. Apart from him being more socially typical and having better executive functions, we're very similar people.