Dealing with a friend with Asperger Syndrome

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Womplord
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24 May 2012, 8:15 am

OK guys, I know you have had this thread many times (I have looked through a few with the search bar), but I wanted some advice on how to deal with some specific things. Sorry for the wall of text, there's a tl;dr at the end. I totally understand if you don't read this monster. I half expect no replies, but I needed to get this off my chest anyway.

I recently started a course in software development, and as you would expect, many of the people there are a bit off-beat. But there is this one guy there who I became friends with. He probably has AS. The observations I am basing this on are his odd finger and hand bending, his strange arm movements, his loud tonal voice, talking about his obsessions (hackintoshes, and anything to do with apple computers :wall:, video editing, and a few other interests), and other symptoms, I think there's enough evidence already.

Most people in the class sort of passively exclude him by looking away, using short responses to what he says, etc. (although he doesn't pick up on this) but I guess I don't do that. I have sort of an affection for, and try to be non-judgemental with, people who are a bit different, probably because I have had my fair share of mental health problems. I have bipolar type 1, diagnosed last year, and have dealt with manic :shaking2:, psychotic mixed :eew:, and severe depressive episodes :shaking:, plus I used to have social anxiety which was never diagnosed (but I don't seem to have it anymore). However I haven't had any severe episodes since it was treated. So basically, I know what it's like to be on the outside.

Anyway, since we became friends he follows me around like a lost puppy, and since we are always together, his social skills are starting to reflect on me. For example, when I try to talk to my other friends he ALWAYS starts a side conversation with me, even when I tell him not to. Or, if he's in the mood, he announces the new topic of conversation to the table which is invariably something that interests only him. His one-on-one conversational skills are a bit better but he still talks a lot about things that interest him, but we can joke and talk about some mutual interests (interests that he does not obsess about) as well.

He is also really annoying in that he hates everyone who is different. This is probably the stupidest thing that he does because he is clearly different himself. For example, he calls many people in our class nerds, he pays out one guy constantly behind his back because he is obese. He hates gays, blacks, pays out women, religious people, pays out anyone who isn't fit (he is very fit and healty and we do workouts together) and even payed out people with bipolar disorder once which pissed me the f**k off but he didn't notice. However, if I just called him a fuckbrain for thinking that he'd probably take me on, because someone made a joke that insulted him once and he got really upset, even though most people would just laugh and make a joke back.

He also is narcissistic, he thinks he is amazing at computers because he knows how to build them and install Apple OS's on PCs, and thinks he will retire by 30 by making a hugely successful business. From what I've seen, he's not that smart, he's hopeless at most of the typical school subjects such as maths, science and English and only succeeded academically at technology, to a moderate level.

If I started avoiding him, his social contacts would start dropping off because he basically knows everyone here through me and I think if I stopped buffering him socially, people would start to hate him. I think that maybe he could straighten out a lot of his negative social traits if he worked on it. He's a good friend and we get on well but all of these things really frustrate me! WHAT DO I DO? :evil:

tl;dr, my aspie friend keeps talking to me when I am having a group conversation, he can be selfish, he isolates me to talk to me alone, hates every group that is different (ironically), is narcissistic, embarrasses me in group conversations, never leaves me alone, etc. wat do.

Also, I think it needs to be added that I know that most aspies are not like my friend here - you all seem like a group of intelligent generous people :wtg:, and I look forward to participating in the forum!



TechnoDog
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24 May 2012, 8:29 am

Someone with a personality problem.
That sounds the exact same problem as the other.
Think you both need to be. ( The quiet one ).
No such thing as multi personality’s.
Or an actor would be mentally sick.
Your the opposite of each other on the types.


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24 May 2012, 8:37 am

Womplord wrote:
He's a good friend and we get on well but all of these things really frustrate me! WHAT DO I DO? :evil:

Judging from how established your friendship has become, I'd suggest showing him this post you wrote. If he ignores its message, you'll have to decide to either accept him as he is or alienate yourself from him. If he's really a good friend, he will at least discuss your concerns brought up here. I think you'll be able to tell then how much he cares about his friendship with you.

If someone did for me, as what I'm suggesting you do for your friend, I would appreciate it immensely. I would try my best to learn how to change and ask for my friend's help to learn how to improve. I'd also inform my friend of my need for him to be patient and understanding, especially since changing habits takes a lot of work and time. However, if my friend expected me to act like a chameleon (change to conform who I am to please others), I would choose to remain true to myself.

I hate it when people just reject a person without making the effort to do their best to explain why they're doing it. It's not fair. At least when a person is informed, he has vital information he can base future decisions on.


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24 May 2012, 8:48 am

Womplord wrote:
He also is narcissistic, he thinks he is amazing at computers because he knows how to build them and install Apple OS's on PCs, and thinks he will retire by 30 by making a hugely successful business. From what I've seen, he's not that smart, he's hopeless at most of the typical school subjects such as maths, science and English and only succeeded academically at technology, to a moderate level.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2 ... ger_effect

Quote:
my aspie friend keeps talking to me when I am having a group conversation, he can be selfish, he isolates me to talk to me alone, hates every group that is different (ironically), is narcissistic, embarrasses me in group conversations, never leaves me alone, etc. wat do.


I am guessing from his intolerant views that he relies on generating a false sense of superiority to compensate for his shortcomings, meaning he can't really accept himself and he might be quite hostile to the idea of being a member of an "inferior" group or a group of people with problems. It seems like he targets groups with a perceived weakness in order to feel better about himself. Dangerous ground. I generally avoid people like this because I have not had good experiences with them, and I know from experience they can stay that way their entire life, hanging on to that little self-defence mechanism, and hating themselves, forever. Thereby causing problems for everyone around them, particularly anyone who goes through a bad spell (they become targets). Such dangerous ground with someone who does this, because they can't accept the idea that they themselves have a weakness or problem, that's the whole core of it. I don't know as there is much you can do - this habit creates a blockage that renders communication impossible.



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24 May 2012, 9:12 am

edgewaters wrote:
I am guessing from his intolerant views that he relies on generating a false sense of superiority to compensate for his shortcomings, meaning he can't really accept himself and he might be quite hostile to the idea of being a member of an "inferior" group or a group of people with problems. It seems like he targets groups with a perceived weakness in order to feel better about himself. Dangerous ground. I generally avoid people like this because I have not had good experiences with them, and I know from experience they can stay that way their entire life, hanging on to that little self-defence mechanism, and hating themselves, forever. Thereby causing problems for everyone around them, particularly anyone who goes through a bad spell (they become targets). Such dangerous ground with someone who does this, because they can't accept the idea that they themselves have a weakness or problem, that's the whole core of it. I don't know as there is much you can do - this habit creates a blockage that renders communication impossible.


This.



Womplord
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24 May 2012, 9:25 am

edgewaters wrote:
I am guessing from his intolerant views that he relies on generating a false sense of superiority to compensate for his shortcomings, meaning he can't really accept himself and he might be quite hostile to the idea of being a member of an "inferior" group or a group of people with problems. It seems like he targets groups with a perceived weakness in order to feel better about himself.


Yes, I think you hit the nail on the head with this. This is one of main reasons I have never mentioned AS to him, even though the knowledge may be beneficial as faithfilly suggested. On top of this, it seems from this model of his behavior that the knowledge of AS could have a serious effect on his self-esteem. We have definitely got to the point where our friendship is well-established though, so maybe I should just be more assertive. I honestly have no clue how he'd react. A reaction like faithfilly's would definitely be acceptable, though.



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24 May 2012, 9:39 am

the post by edgewaters definitely hit the nail on the head there.
I reckon he is an extremely insecure and vulnerable person. I reckon if you were more upfront with him about his controversial views that you don't agree with you'll find he probably doesn't actually truly believe them. He probably just says them to make himself feel more secure about his issues.

I often have this problem with people. I get on with my friends but sometimes their views and things do really piss me off. But you have to weigh up how valuable you consider his friendship and whether his shortcomings outweigh his friendship. At the end of the day it doesn't matter if he has AS, he can still just be a turd. I guess with time he will realise that he is being a bit out of line and he will learn from the experience and change as a person.



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24 May 2012, 9:58 am

Womplord wrote:
OK guys, I know you have had this thread many times (I have looked through a few with the search bar), but I wanted some advice on how to deal with some specific things. Sorry for the wall of text, there's a tl;dr at the end. I totally understand if you don't read this monster. I half expect no replies, but I needed to get this off my chest anyway.

I recently started a course in software development, and as you would expect, many of the people there are a bit off-beat. But there is this one guy there who I became friends with. He probably has AS. The observations I am basing this on are his odd finger and hand bending, his strange arm movements, his loud tonal voice, talking about his obsessions (hackintoshes, and anything to do with apple computers :wall:, video editing, and a few other interests), and other symptoms, I think there's enough evidence already.

Most people in the class sort of passively exclude him by looking away, using short responses to what he says, etc. (although he doesn't pick up on this) but I guess I don't do that. I have sort of an affection for, and try to be non-judgemental with, people who are a bit different, probably because I have had my fair share of mental health problems. I have bipolar type 1, diagnosed last year, and have dealt with manic :shaking2:, psychotic mixed :eew:, and severe depressive episodes :shaking:, plus I used to have social anxiety which was never diagnosed (but I don't seem to have it anymore). However I haven't had any severe episodes since it was treated. So basically, I know what it's like to be on the outside.

Anyway, since we became friends he follows me around like a lost puppy, and since we are always together, his social skills are starting to reflect on me. For example, when I try to talk to my other friends he ALWAYS starts a side conversation with me, even when I tell him not to. Or, if he's in the mood, he announces the new topic of conversation to the table which is invariably something that interests only him. His one-on-one conversational skills are a bit better but he still talks a lot about things that interest him, but we can joke and talk about some mutual interests (interests that he does not obsess about) as well.

He is also really annoying in that he hates everyone who is different. This is probably the stupidest thing that he does because he is clearly different himself. For example, he calls many people in our class nerds, he pays out one guy constantly behind his back because he is obese. He hates gays, blacks, pays out women, religious people, pays out anyone who isn't fit (he is very fit and healty and we do workouts together) and even payed out people with bipolar disorder once which pissed me the f**k off but he didn't notice. However, if I just called him a f**** for thinking that he'd probably take me on, because someone made a joke that insulted him once and he got really upset, even though most people would just laugh and make a joke back.

He also is narcissistic, he thinks he is amazing at computers because he knows how to build them and install Apple OS's on PCs, and thinks he will retire by 30 by making a hugely successful business. From what I've seen, he's not that smart, he's hopeless at most of the typical school subjects such as maths, science and English and only succeeded academically at technology, to a moderate level.

If I started avoiding him, his social contacts would start dropping off because he basically knows everyone here through me and I think if I stopped buffering him socially, people would start to hate him. I think that maybe he could straighten out a lot of his negative social traits if he worked on it. He's a good friend and we get on well but all of these things really frustrate me! WHAT DO I DO? :evil:

tl;dr, my aspie friend keeps talking to me when I am having a group conversation, he can be selfish, he isolates me to talk to me alone, hates every group that is different (ironically), is narcissistic, embarrasses me in group conversations, never leaves me alone, etc. wat do.

Also, I think it needs to be added that I know that most aspies are not like my friend here - you all seem like a group of intelligent generous people :wtg:, and I look forward to participating in the forum!

My first suggestion is, think of all your other friends. You are thinking about the situation with the AS guy as an AS guy v. me and everyone else I know framework. Is he the only friend you have who irritates you? No other friend EVER gets on your nerves? The truth is, everyone gets on their friends nerves from time to time. If you really can't stand this guy, my advice is for you to just ignore him. Don't pay attention to him and shun him when he comes around. Don't answer the phone when he calls. Before you go to that extreme, though, think about it from an "everyone" perspective instead of "he has AS and the rest of us don't so he is the only one capable of annoying other people," one.
Everyone I know and I do mean EVERYONE gets on my nerves.



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24 May 2012, 10:17 am

Yes, I don't think AS is really at issue here, at least not in a major way. If it was just AS then I doubt the OP would even be writing, resolution of the more minor issues would be more easily handled. To my mind the main problem and the first problem is the intractable one, that hostility to weakness. That's not from AS, its from individual personality, but it prevents self-realization and so, problems cannot be corrected (whether they are related to AS or anything else)

I've never found a solution with people who are like this, I just avoid them. Some grow out of it, some never do, but I've never seen one come to a realization from any one thing anyone ever tried or said, usually more like years and years of multiple people plus life experiences on top of that, and even that doesn't always work.



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24 May 2012, 10:19 am

The AS guy, from what the OP describes, clearly has flaws but the human species is inherently flawed. Being flawed is part of being human. Humans grow by learning how to deal with and accepting the flaws of others.



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24 May 2012, 10:40 am

Just to clarify with everyone, even though he has a lot of other personality faults, the thing that I want to solve first and foremost is his social problems, ie. him butting in whenever I want a group conversation, following me everywhere, talks about himself, changes the subject. These social problems really bug me, because they isolate me from other friends. The other things annoy me but not to the level where I want him to piss off and stop talking to me.



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24 May 2012, 10:44 am

Womplord wrote:
Just to clarify with everyone, even though he has a lot of other personality faults, the thing that I want to solve first and foremost is his social problems, ie. him butting in whenever I want a group conversation, following me everywhere, talks about himself, changes the subject. These social problems really bug me, because they isolate me from other friends. The other things annoy me but not to the level where I want him to piss off and stop talking to me.


Yeah but I don't see how you can get to that part from where he is now, because of the other issue. If he was the sort of person with only a minimal ego you could just tell him straightforward, and he wouldn't be offended, and things could just go from there, but, with this other thing, I don't know how you would be able to deal with it.

Maybe you could just talk about AS (not in reference to him specifically) and gauge his reaction.



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24 May 2012, 10:52 am

Womplord wrote:
Just to clarify with everyone, even though he has a lot of other personality faults, the thing that I want to solve first and foremost is his social problems, ie. him butting in whenever I want a group conversation, following me everywhere, talks about himself, changes the subject. These social problems really bug me, because they isolate me from other friends. The other things annoy me but not to the level where I want him to piss off and stop talking to me.

This is where you mediate. When the guy is trying to monopolize you, create some space. If your friends think the guy is weird or something and they say something like, "dude we don't want to be around you if you are with him," tell them he is your friend and since he is, they are going to accept it. This doesn't mean you let the AS guy isolate you. If he is trying to monopolize the conversations with you and your friends, do something to create space or just tell him you'd love to talk about it, but maybe some other time. If your friends do not approve of who you are friends with and don't want to be around you because of it, they are not really friends in the first place.



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24 May 2012, 10:54 am

edgewaters wrote:
Womplord wrote:
Just to clarify with everyone, even though he has a lot of other personality faults, the thing that I want to solve first and foremost is his social problems, ie. him butting in whenever I want a group conversation, following me everywhere, talks about himself, changes the subject. These social problems really bug me, because they isolate me from other friends. The other things annoy me but not to the level where I want him to piss off and stop talking to me.


Yeah but I don't see how you can get to that part from where he is now, because of the other issue. If he was the sort of person with only a minimal ego you could just tell him straightforward, and he wouldn't be offended, and things could just go from there, but, with this other thing, I don't know how you would be able to deal with it.

Maybe you could just talk about AS (not in reference to him specifically) and gauge his reaction.


Hey, thanks for that, I think I will actually try that. Sorry for my self contradiction but it's 2 am here lol. Yeah, you may be right when you say that his ego is the real problem. Yes, his ego is why I don't really want to try telling him or an idea like faithfilly's. I don't want to risk our friendship. Although, if things continue I'll just have to be more direct I guess. I should probably just try telling him a more often when he's pissing me off. But yes, it's a difficult situation and there may be no solution short of telling him direct despite the risk.

Anyway, thanks for all of the great responses guys I think they will prove very helpful. I'm going to bed now though, I'll check back in the morning.



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24 May 2012, 11:26 am

If there is a cure for narcissistic personality disorder I'd sure like to know what it is. I've met a few here and there; by and large they're nice people. Some are quite knowledgeable but their overarching ego can trip them up. This guy at my job got fired last year because he thought he knew how to run the company better than the bosses and decided to tell them that. From my experience, bosses already think they're doing the best job possible and if you point out their shortcomings they get insulted.

He talked a lot about how they mismanaged the place. I told him to just take the money and run. I guess his ego got the best of him. He challenged them so often that he eventually got fired on some nonsense other employees would've just gotten reprimanded for. I'm thinking that Womplord's friend will be facing the exact same issues his entire life. He'll be moving from job to job and, of course, it'll be everybody else's fault why he's unemployed. Good people offset by bad personalities. Such a shame. :roll:



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24 May 2012, 4:27 pm

JoeRose wrote:
the post by edgewaters definitely hit the nail on the head there.
I reckon he is an extremely insecure and vulnerable person. I reckon if you were more upfront with him about his controversial views that you don't agree with you'll find he probably doesn't actually truly believe them. He probably just says them to make himself feel more secure about his issues.

I often have this problem with people. I get on with my friends but sometimes their views and things do really piss me off. But you have to weigh up how valuable you consider his friendship and whether his shortcomings outweigh his friendship. At the end of the day it doesn't matter if he has AS, he can still just be a turd. I guess with time he will realise that he is being a bit out of line and he will learn from the experience and change as a person.


I'd certainly say he has some deep-seated insecurities and a desperate need to prove himself to himself and others. A lack of social skills can really cause self-esteem to plummet, and this way of dealing with things may be all he's known for a very long time.

Because he is probably very defensive he may not believe you immediately when you bring it up. He might get into a personal attack on you in order to deflect from facing that he may have a problem but hopefully nothing will get taken personally. There's a study out there somewhere which found that when people get angry their IQ actually drops.

Maybe you could bring up a few of the big issues and also bring up some things that you appreciate in the relationship and tell him that it's just getting to the point where the costs might be outweighing the benefits, so he feels less like he's being attacked. You could tell him that you're willing to be there for support if he's not sure how to change. If he is willing to change he may need some very specific rules to help him start acting appropriately for whatever social situation is at hand (such as not bringing up his accomplishments/qualities unless someone has asked, or only spending more than two sentences about himself if someone has actually asked a question about himself). Or he may not want help and want to deal with it alone (I would personally love more social help).